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Leaves  from  my  Diary 


&■ 


LEAVES 
FROM  MY  DIARY 

1894 — 1896 


BY   THE 


Right  Rev.  Abbot  GASQUET,  O.S.B. 


B.  HERDER 

17    SOUTH    BROADWAY 

ST.  LOUIS 

MO. 


H£KRY  MORSE  STEPHEH* 


TO    THE    READER. 

The  following  extracts  from  my  diaries  for  the 
period  1894  to  1896  are  printed  at  the  request 
of  several  friends,  in  consequence  of  the  publi- 
cation of  A  Roman  Diary  and  other  Docu- 
ments relating  to  the  Papal  Inquiry  into  English 
Ordinations,  by  the  Rev.  T.  A.  Lacey.  The 
entries  in  my  diaries  were  obviously  written 
without  the  least  idea  of  their  ever  being  made 
public,  and  since  1896  they  have  been  locked 
away  and  not  even  read  since  they  were 
written,  until,  in  view  of  Mr.  Lacey 's  Diary,  I 
brought  them  out  and  examined  them. 

A  quotation  from  a  letter  written  to  a  French 
Professor  in  Paris  on  February  2nd,  1896,  will 
show  my  personal  attitude  to  the  question  of 
Anglican  Orders  :  "  My  connection  with  the 
question  of  Anglican  Ordinations  was  certainly 
not  of  my  own  seeking.  In  fact,  on  this  burn- 
ing controversy  I  have  kept  silence,  and  indeed 
have  expressly  passed  it  over  when  dealing 
with  the  Anglican  Liturgy  in  conjunction  with 
my  friend,  Mr.  Edmund  Bishop,  in  the  volume 
Edward  VI  and  the  Book  of  Common  Prayer, 
I   did    so  because   I  thought   the   matter  one 

2 

""9826 


11 


To  the   Reader 


altogether  too  delicate  to  be  stirred  up  without 
grave  reason,  and  that  very  probably  more 
harm  than  good  would  result  from  mooting  the 
question  without  grave  necessity.  It  has,  how- 
ever, now  been  mooted,  not,  I  am  glad  to  say, 
by  anything  we  Catholics  have  done ;  and  if  I 
am  engaged  in  it,  you  may  be  sure  that  it  is 
only  by  command  of  the  Supreme  authority." 

The  examination  initiated  by  the  friends  of 
the  Anglicans  in  Rome  might  have  resulted  in 
one  of  four  conclusions.  It  might  have  shown 
that,  according  to  Catholic  principles,  the 
Orders  of  the  Church  of  England  must  be 
accepted  as  valid  by  the  Church  ;  or  it  might 
have  resulted  in  considering  them  as  doubtful 
only,  which  would  have  entailed,  of  course,  a 
change  in  the  traditional  mode  of  regarding 
them  ;  or,  the  examination  might  have  con- 
firmed the  practice  of  looking  on  them  as  not 
having  the  requisite  qualities  for  validity  in  the 
sense  of  the  Catholic  Church  ;  or,  fourthly, 
it  might  have  been  thought  best  to  abstain 
from  giving  any  decision  at  all. 

From  the  first,  in  my  opinion,  there  could  be 
no  other  possible  result  from  a  thorough  exami- 
nation than  to  confirm  the  constant  practice  of 
the  Church.  Still,  I  was  open  to  conviction, 
and  if  any  gravissima  ratio  could  have  been 


To  the   Reader  iii 

shown  in  the  course  of  discussion  to  change 
that  practice  of  the  Church  during  three  cen- 
turies, all  were  prepared  to  accept  that  solution. 

When,  as  the  outcome  of  the  Roman  investi- 
gation, Pope  Leo  XIII,  on  September  13th, 
1896,  declared  that  the  Church  must  continue 
to  hold  the  Anglican  Orders  to  be  invalid, 
many  protests  were  uttered  by  English  Church- 
men against  his  decision.  The  cry  went  forth 
that  the  Pope  had  outraged  every  good  feeling 
by  denying  to  others  what  he  claimed  for  him- 
self— Apostolic  succession  of  Orders.  From 
time  to  time  since,  this  complaint  of  wounded 
sensibilities  has  been  uttered  by  many.  In  one 
of  the  debates  in  the  English  House  of  Lords 
upon  the  Royal  Declaration,  which  was  ad- 
mittedly offensive  to  Catholics,  the  Bishop  of 
Bristol,  Dr.  Browne,  defended  the  retention  of 
the  blasphemies  of  the  King's  Oath  on  the 
ground  that  the  Pope  had  declared  the  Orders 
of  the  English  Church  null  and  void. 

With  every  allowance  for  the  feelings  of 
those  among  the  clergy  of  the  Established 
Church  who,  holding  advanced  doctrines  on 
the  Eucharist,  regard  themselves  as  being 
"  sacrificing-priests  "  quite  as  really  as  ourselves, 
it  is  somewhat  hard  to  see  what  ground  of 
complaint  any  one  of  them  has  with  the  Papal 


iv  To  the  Reader 

decision.  They  remain  what  they  were  before, 
and  the  whole  question  was  essentially,  so  far 
as  the  Roman  authorities  were  concerned,  a 
domestic  one.  The  real  question  before  the 
Commission  and  to  be  determined  by  the  Pope 
was  this  and  no  other:  Was  the  Catholic  Church 
to  regard  the  English  bishops  and  priests  of 
the  Established  Church  as  bishops  and  priests 
in  the  same  way  and  in  the  same  sense  as  those 
who  have  been  ordained  according  to  the  rites 
and  ceremonies  prescribed  in  the  Catholic 
Pontifical  ?  Surely  the  living  authority  of  the 
Roman  Church  had  a  right — and  when  the 
question  had  been  formally  raised,  a  duty — to 
determine  the  answer,  without  being  considered 
either  offensive  or  aggressive.  Certainly  no 
such  motive  was  thought  of  in  the  discussions 
of  the  Commission,  and  I  fancy  that  the  notes 
from  my  Diaries  here  printed  will  show  the 
single-minded  purpose  with  which  we  ap- 
proached the  consideration  of  a  question  which 
had  been  forced  upon  us  by  outsiders. 


Leaves  from  my  Diary. 
1894. 

December  $th. — To-day  two  matters  of 
curious  significance  were  brought  to  my 
notice.  In  a  letter  received  from  a  friend — 
a  layman — in  Rome,  the  writer  speaks  of 
reports  current  in  the  Eternal  City  of  an 
approach  which  had  been  made  to  the  Pope 
by  certain  Anglicans  through  some  French 
friends  with  a  view  of  interesting  him  in  a 
scheme  for  the  reunion  of  England  with 
Rome.  The  rumours  were  vague,  but  it 
was  said  that  the  Pope  was  greatly  moved 
by  what  he  was  told  as  to  the  prospects  of 
reunion,  and  had  made  certain  promises  of 
action,  the  nature  of  which  was  unknown 
generally,  and  was  evidently  kept,  or  intended 
to  be  kept,  a  profound  secret. 

The  second  matter  somewhat  explained 
the  first.  Some  letters  and  papers  were 
placed  in  my  hands  in  the  evening  of  this 
day  (5th  Dec,  1894),  from  which   I  learned 


2  Leaves  from  my  Diary 

the  following  :  the  Abbe  Portal,  a  French 
Lazarist,  who,  under  the  name  of  Dalbus, 
had  written  a  pamphlet  on  "  English  Ordina- 
tions," had  been  three  weeks  in  England  in 
consultation  with  certain  prominent  Angli- 
cans. It  was  said  that  he  had  come  to  the 
conclusion  that  to  bring  about  a  union,  or 
discussion  leading  to  a  union,  of  the  Anglican 
with  the  Roman  Church,  "les  ordres  offerai- 
ent  un  excellent  terrain."  From  England 
the  Abbe  went  to  Rome  and,  interesting 
Cardinal  Rampolla  in  his  scheme,  was  re- 
ceived by  the  Pope  on  the  12th  of  Sep- 
tember (1894).  After  having  told  the  Holy 
Father  what  he  had  seen  of  the  Anglicans 
in  England  and  what  he  believed  to  be  the 
actual  religious  state  of  the  English  Church, 
and  the  disposition  of  its  members  in  regard 
to  reunion,  the  Pope  asked  him  if  he  himself 
could  do  anything  to  promote  the  union  of 
the  Churches.  To  this  Portal  replied  by 
suggesting  that  the  Pope  should  write  a  letter 
on  the  subject  to  the  Archbishops  of  Canter- 
bury and  York.  This  at  the  time  was  agreed 
to  ;  but  two  days  later  the  Abbe  was  informed 
that  it  was,  on  reflection,  considered  better 
to  wait  for  a  time  before  such  a  letter  was 
written. 


Leaves  from  my  Diary  3 

Portal  says  that  at  the  time  of  his  inter- 
view he  saw  his  pamphlet,  Les  Ordinations 
Anglicanes,  on  the  Pope's  table,  and  he 
desired  his  Anglican  friends  to  believe  that 
there  had  never  been  "  une  telle  demarche 
de  la  part  de  Rome."  The  Abbe  Duchesne, 
too,  had  been  chosen,  he  says,  to  write  his 
views  upon  the  question  of  the  validity  of 
the  English  Orders,  and  this  manifests  on 
the  part  of  the  Roman  authorities  "un  si 
grand  desir  d'envisager  les  choses  sous  le 
point  de  vue  le  plus  favorable  pour  cette 
eglise." 

December  jth  (1894). — I  had  an  inter- 
view with  Cardinal  Vaughan  this  morning, 
in  the  course  of  which  I  told  him  what  I  had 
heard  from  Rome,  and  also  what  I  under- 
stood from  the  papers  shown  me  in  England 
was  going  on  in  regard  to  reunion,  and  of 
the  desire  of  our  Anglican  friends  to  reopen 
the  question  of  their  Orders.  The  Cardinal 
had  heard  nothing  whatever  on  either  point, 
and  expressed  his  disbelief  in  what  I  had 
told  him,  as  he  was  sure  he  must  have  had 
some  indication  of  so  important  a  matter  as 
the  question  of  Anglican  Orders  being  raised 
in  Rome.  He  deprecated  starting  such  a 
question  at  this  time,  but  added  that,  were  it 


4  Leaves  from  my  Diary 

raised,  he  would  do  his  best  to  insist  upon  its 
being  sifted  to  the  bottom  and  a  formal 
decision  given  either  one  way  or  another. 

December  6th. — I  wrote  to  my  friend  in 
Rome  to  say  that  I  had  evidence  that  what 
he  had  told  me  about  the  secret  "  intrigues  " 
of  certain  friends  of  the  Anglicans  with  the 
Curia  had  some  foundation,  but  that  having 
spoken  to  Cardinal  Vaughan,  I  found  that  he 
had  heard  nothing  whatsoever  about  the 
matter,  and  did  not  believe  there  could  be 
any  real  truth  in  it. 

December  iSt/i. —  To-day  I  received  a 
letter  from  Rome  conveying  to  me  the  Pope's 
commands  to  proceed  to  Rome  as  early  as 
possible  in  the  New  Year  on  matters  of 
importance. 

December  igt/i. — I  saw  the  Cardinal  to- 
day and  told  him  that  I  was  told  to  go  to 
Rome.  He  said  he  was  glad,  but  that  it 
was  not  his  doing  in  any  way.  He  added 
that  he  had  made  inquiries  about  what  I  had 
told  him  as  to  what  was  supposed  to  be  going 
on  in  Rome,  and  that  he  believed  there  had 
been  an  endeavour  on  the  part  of  certain 
Frenchmen  to  urge  the  re-opening  of  the 
question  of  Orders  by  the  Roman  authorities 
on   behalf  of  Anglicans.      His  information, 


Leaves  from  my  Diary  5 

however,  was  vague  ;  but  he  intended  start- 
ing for  Rome  himself  immediately  after 
Christmas,  and  would  there  be  in  a  position 
to  find  out  what  was  going  on. 


1895. 

Thursday \  31J/  January,  1895. — I  arrived 
in  Rome  this  morning  (31st  January),  at 
about  8  o'clock.  As  soon  as  possible  I 
proceeded  to  the  English  College  to  report 
my  arrival  to  the  Cardinal  as  I  had  promised 
to  do.  After  some  difficulty  with  the 
domestics  who  declared  that  His  Eminence 
would  receive  "ni  vescovo  ni  cardinale,"  I 
saw  Mgr.  Dunn,  who  took  me  straightway 
to  the  Cardinal's  room,  where  he  received 
me  with  expressions  of  great  pleasure  that  I 
had  at  last  arrived.  He  said  the  situation  in 
Rome  in  regard  to  the  question  of  the  re-union 
of  the  Anglican  Church  with  Rome,  was 
certainly  interesting,  and  what  had  been 
believed  in  the  Eternal  City  as  to  the  desire 
of  Anglicans  generally  to  make  their  sub- 
mission to  the  Church  almost  incompre- 
hensible. He  then  proceeded  to  give  me 
a  long  account  of  an  interview  he  had  had 
with  the  Pope  on  arriving,  of  which  the 
following  are  the  principal  points  : 

On  his  reaching  Rome,  the  Saturday  week 


Leaves  from  my  Diary  7 

before  (January  19th,  1895),  ne  was  sent  f°r 
immediately  by  the  Pope.  Directly  he 
entered  the  Pope's  room,  the  Holy  Father 
began  at  once  about  his  great  desire  to  effect 
the  "  re-union  of  England"  with  the  Holy 
See.  He  had  been  anxiously  awaiting  his 
(that  is  the  Cardinal's)  arrival  to  carry  out 
the  purpose  he  had  conceived  of  addressing 
a  personal  letter  of  invitation  to  the  Anglican 
Archbishops.  He  told  me,  said  the  Cardinal, 
that  "  you  Catholics  of  England  are  quite 
mistaken  in  the  real  attitude  of  those  who 
are  outside  the  Church  in  England  towards 
re-union.  They  are  really  just  on  the 
point  of  coming  in,  but  are  being  continually 
repelled  by  the  hostility  of  Catholics,  and  I 
am  told,  especially,"  he  said,  "  that  the 
harshness  of  Londoners  keeps  them  back, 
whereas  it  only  requires  some  paternal,  kind 
'  Come,  come  now,  etc.,  etc.,  take  courage, 
etc.,  etc.,'  to  bring  them  back  en  masse  to 
the  fold  of  the  true  Church." 

With  regard  especially  to  the  question  of 
Anglican  Orders,  the  Pope  went  on  to  say : 
if  indeed  they  really  seemed  to  be  doubtful, 
for  his  part,  he  was  disposed  to  grant  that 
they  (the  Anglicans  who  submitted  to  the 
authority  of  the  Church),  should  be  allowed 


8  Leaves  from  my  Diary 

to  receive    Ordination   sub  conditioner  as  in 
the  case  of  a  doubtful  baptism. 

The  Cardinal  assured  me  that  the  Pope 
spoke  for  some  twenty  minutes  in  this  strain. 
He  ended  by  saying  that  from  what  he  had 
been  told,  it  was  his  belief  that  some 
little  concession  would  bring  the  majority 
of  Englishmen  into  communion  with  the 
Roman  Church.  In  all  this  the  Cardinal 
said  the  Holy  Father  did  not  seem  to  have 
any  idea  of  the  difference  between  Ritualists 
and  others,  or  indeed  any  real  knowledge  of 
the  actual  state  of  religious  feeling  in  Eng- 
land. At  the  end  of  a  very  long  speech 
the  Holy  Father  said: — "  And  now  I  want 
you  to  help  me  in  this."  Cardinal  Vaughan, 
who  all  this  time  had  said  nothing,  immediately 
replied  :  "  If  what  your  Holiness  believes  as 
to  the  likelihood  of  the  English  people 
coming  over  en  masse,  or  even  in  great 
numbers,  had  any  foundation  in  fact,  it  would 
be  only  right  and  proper  to  see  whether  by 
any  lawful  concession,  this  very  desirable 
end  could  be  helped  forward.  But  your 
Holiness  has  evidently  been  entirely  mis- 
informed as  to  the  real  attitude  of  the 
English  people  to  the  Roman  Church.  The 
vast    majority   of   Englishmen    are    without 


Leaves  from  my  Diary  9 

question  thoroughly  Protestant  in  every 
sense.  A  small  and  energetic  minority,  it  is 
true,  against  the  protests  of  the  majority,  now 
call  themselves  Catholics  and  have  adopted 
many  of  the  practices  and  language  of 
the  Catholic  Church.  But  even  these  are 
unanimous  in  rejecting  what  we  hold  to  be 
the  foundation  of  the  Catholic  religion,  the 
authority  of  the  Church  and  of  the  Supreme 
Pontiff." 

Then  the  Pope  held  up  his  hands  in 
surprise  and  exclaimed  "  Ma  questa  e  una 
questione  di  dottrina  !  "  The  Cardinal  then 
said  that  he  had  himself  recently  put  this 
question  to  two  representatives  of  the  highest 
school  of  Anglican  thought,  and  that  they 
both  had  declared  to  him  that  they  did  not 
believe  that  there  was  any  great  movement 
towards  the  Church,  as  we  understand  it, 
in  contemplation.  "With  regard  to  your 
Holiness 's  intention  of  sending  a  letter  to 
the  Archbishops  of  Canterbury  and  York," 
the  Cardinal  continued,  "this  project  has 
been  known  for  some  time  in  England  and 
much  discussed.  I  know  for  a  fact  that 
drafts  of  such  a  letter  have  been  suggested 
and  sent  round  to  various  people  to  know 
whether   a  letter  of  such  and  such  a  kind 


io        Leaves  from  my  Diary 

would  meet  with  their  approval  if  written. 
And,  moreover,  the  Archbishop  of  Canterbury 
has  been  approached  and  asked  to  receive 
your  Holiness's  communication  at  least  with 
civility."  On  hearing  this  the  Pope  appeared 
to  be  greatly  astonished  and  said  that  this 
was  entirely  new  to  him  and  that  he  had 
given  no  authority  to  anyone  to  do  this. 

The  Cardinal  then  went  on  to  say  that 
this  was  not  all.  Six  months  ago  a  French 
priest  had  come  to  England  and  had  stayed 
for  some  considerable  time  in  Anglican  circles. 
He  had  visited  the  Cowley  Fathers,  Angli- 
can convents,  and,  he  believed,  Anglican 
Bishops,  allowing  it  to  be  understood  that  he 
came  with  the  knowledge  and  in  an  unofficial 
way  on  behalf  of  Rome .  The  Pope  there- 
upon declared  that  he  had  never  given  any- 
one such  authority  or  even  thought  of  such 
a  thing.  The  Cardinal,  however,  declared 
that  this  was  the  view  which  was  taken  of 
his  mission  in  England  by  Anglicans,  and 
colour  was  to  a  certain  extent  given  to  it  by 
the  fact  that  the  said  French  priest  studiously 
avoided  paying  even  the  visit  of  courtesy 
due  to  English  ecclesiastical  authority,  and 
indeed  kept  out  of  the  way  of  Catholics 
altogether. 


Leaves  from  my  Diary        1 1 

Further,  that  he  (Cardinal  Vaughan)  had 
it  on  the  authority  of  a  Catholic  priest,  who 
had  himself  seen  it  in  Abbe  Portals  own 
writing,  that  he  had  been  received  at  the 
Vatican  by  the  Holy  Father,  who  had  ex- 
pressed to  him  his  personal  desire  to  consent 
to  anything  to  bring  back  England  to  the 
Church,  and  that  the  Abbe  Portal  had 
recommended  the  Pope  to  take  the  extra- 
ordinary course  of  writing  to  the  Archbishops 
of  Canterbury  and  York.  The  Pope  appeared 
much  disturbed  about  the  whole  matter 
having  been  known  and  discussed  in  Eng- 
land. 

Cardinal  Vaughan  then  spoke  of  what  the 
Pope  had  said  in  regard  to  Anglican  Orders. 
He  said  that  he  did  not  quite  understand  the 
ground  of  the  Pope's  desire  to  change  the 
existing  practice  of  regarding  them  as  abso- 
lutely invalid.  He  could  quite  realise  that, 
if  any  new  light  of  importance  had  been 
thrown  on  the  question,  it  might  be  neces- 
sary that  it  should  be  thoroughly  examined 
and  settled  once  for  all  according  to  the 
evidence.  But  if  nothing  new  were  known 
to  have  come  to  light,  in  his  opinion  it  would 
be  much  better  to  leave  matters  as  they  were. 
He  strongly  urged  upon  the  Pope  the  need 


12        Leaves  from  my  Diary 

of  great  caution  when  the  only  apparent 
ground  for  desiring  to  change  the  practice 
which  the  Church  had  maintained  for  cen- 
turies, was  to  give  pleasure  to  a  section  of 
the  English  Church,  which  had  no  intention 
whatever  of  submitting  to  the  Church's 
authority,  but  desired  to  be  considered  in  all 
other  things  Catholic.  It  was  no  doubt 
painful  to  those  who  claimed  to  be  priests, 
in  the  Catholic  sense,  to  know  that  the 
Church  had  persistently  refused  to  recognise 
their  claim,  just  as  did  a  great  number  of 
those  who  were  equally  members  of  the  same 
Anglican  Church.  The  effect  of  any  change 
in  the  way  of  dealing  with  Anglican  Ordina- 
tions, except  as  the  result  of  evidence  and 
examination,  would  be  to  afford  ground  for 
a  declaration  that  Rome  had  been  wrong  in 
the  matter  for  three  hundred  years,  and  that 
the  next  step  taken  by  the  authorities  would 
be  to  declare  in  favour  of  the  validity  of 
English  Orders.  Moreover,  apart  from  any 
question  of  expediency,  he,  the  Cardinal, 
could  not  see  what  was  to  be  gained  by 
raising  the  question. 

To  this  the  Pope  replied  that  the  whole 
matter  was  in  the  hands  of  the  "  Congrega- 
tion of  the   Holy   Office,"  and  that  nothing 


Leaves  from  my  Diary        1 3 

was  likely  to  be  done  without  full  considera- 
tion. He  then,  at  the  end  of  the  interview, 
told  the  Cardinal  that  he  had  sent  for  "  Padre 
Gasquet,"  which  his  Eminence  knew,  and 
desired  that  he  might  be  informed  when  I 
arrived  in  Rome.  This  was  practically  all 
the  interview  ;  but  the  Cardinal  told  me  that 
the  day  after  his  visit  to  the  Vatican  the 
Pope  said  to  an  Italian  Bishop  that  he  had 
been  misled  into  thinking  that  any  large 
section  of  the  Anglican  Church  were  likely 
to  make  their  submission  en  masse,  and  that 
Cardinal  Vaughan  had  assured  him  that  there 
was  no  truth  in  the  statements  as  to  this 
which  had  been  made  to  him. 

Friday \  February  1st.  —  Saw  Cardinal 
Vaughan  for  a  few  minutes  at  the  English 
College  this  morning.  He  had  had  a  talk  with 
Cardinal  Mazzella  the  evening  before,  and 
found  that,  three  months  previously,  Cardinal 
Mazzella  had  been  spoken  to  by  the  Holy 
Father  as  to  the  question  of  Anglican  Orders. 
He,  the  Cardinal,  had  urged  the  Pope  to 
take  no  step  without  consultation  ;  and  that 
if  any  change  in  the  practice  dealing  with 
the  Orders  was  to  be  made,  this  should  be  as 
the  result  of  a  serious  examination  into  the 
question.     He   urged    that   someone  should 

3 


14        Leaves  from  my  Diary 

be  sent  for  from  England  who  could  give 
advice  in  this  matter,  and  he  was  glad  to 
hear  later  that  this  suggestion  had  been 
acted  upon. 

In  the  afternoon  I  went,  at  Cardinal 
Vaughan's  suggestion,  to  call  upon  Fr. 
Brandi  of  the  Civilta.  In  the  course  of 
conversation,  Fr.  Brandi  told  me  that  he  had 
written  two  or  three  articles  on  the  Anglican 
Ordination  question,  and  that  they  were 
already  set  up  in  type,  when  he  was  ordered 
to  hold  them  over  so  as  not  to  complicate 
matters  by  seeming  to  anticipate  what 
authority  might  do.  The  articles  had  been 
written  in  view  of  the  pamphlet  of  M.  Dalbus 
(Abbe  Portal)  on  Les  Ordinations  Anglicanes 
and  the  review  of  it  by  M.  Duchesne  in  the 
Rdvue  Critique.  Father  Brandi  also  said 
that  copies  of  Portal's  pamphlet  had  been 
distributed  very  widely  in  ecclesiastical  circles 
in  Rome  :  so  widely,  indeed,  that  many  were 
induced  to  think  this  had  been  done  on  the 
part  of  the  Anglicans. 

Wednesday \  February  6th. — To-day  I  was 
charged  by  the  Vatican  authorities  to  draw 
up  a  mdmoire  as  to  the  religious  state  of 
England  at  the  present  time,  so  far  as  the 
prospect   of   the    union    of    Anglicans    with 


Leaves  from  my  Diary        15 

Rome  was  concerned,  and  to  give  my  opinion 
about  the  validity  of  Anglican  Orders,  in 
view  of  the  possible  need  of  appointing  a 
Commission  to  go  into  the  question. 

Friday^  February  %th — To-day  from  two 
different  sources  I  have  heard  rumours  of  the 
treatment  of  Anglicans  as  Catholics  by  French 
priests  in  Rome.  This  was  in  the  matter  of 
the  Sacraments,  Confession  and  Holy  Com- 
munion. An  Archbishop  told  me  that  he 
had  expostulated  with  a  French  priest,  who 
had  boasted  that  he  had  given  absolution 
and  Holy  Communion  to  an  Anglican  lady. 
This  priest  defended  himself  on  the  grounds 
that  the  Anglicans  were  only  accidentally  out 
of  communion  with  Rome.  Whether  these 
stories  are  true  or  not — probably,  I  think, 
not — they  show  the  curious,  if  not  dangerous, 
situation  that  exists,  and  a  total  ignorance  of 
the  real  state  of  things  in  England  among 
some  people  here. 

In  the  evening  I  saw  Cardinal  Mazzella 
and  had  about  an  hour's  talk  with  him.  I 
asked  him  if  he  could  tell  me  what  the  present 
intention  of  the  Pope  was  as  to  instituting  an 
examination  in  regard  to  the  question  of 
Anglican  Orders.  He  replied  that  at  one 
time    His   Holiness  had  quite  made   up  his 


1 6  Leaves  from  my  Diary- 
mind  to  appoint  a  Commission  of  Cardinals 
to  consider  whether  any  change  in  the  tradi- 
tional attitude  of  the  Church  to  these  Orders 
was  desirable  ;  that  he  had  asked  him  (Car- 
dinal Mazzella)  and,  to  his  knowledge,  other 
Cardinals  to  form  part  of  the  Commission. 
Cardinal  Mazzella  urged  caution  before  the 
subject  was  opened  at  all,  and  said  that  in 
his  opinion  the  question  should  not  be  raised, 
but  if  it  were  raised,  it  must  undoubtedly  be 
settled  on  its  merits.  "  My  own  impression," 
added  the  Cardinal,  "  is  that  the  Pope  would 
now  drop  the  idea  of  a  Commission  unless  it 
is  forced  on  him  by  others  who  were  interested 
in  the  matter." 

'Tuesday \  February  12th This  afternoon 

I  went  to  the  English  College  and  was 
fortunate  to  find  Cardinal  Vaughan.  Last 
evening  I  had  heard  on  the  best  possible 
authority  that  a  certain  Monsignore  living  in 
Rome  had  sent  Dalbus'  pamphlet  to  the 
Holy  Office,  on  the  ground  that  it  was 
doing  a  lot  of  harm  in  Rome  by  its  wide 
circulation.  This  appears  to  me  to  be  a 
most  unfortunate  and  deplorable  step,  and  I 
gave  my  reasons  for  thinking  so  to  the 
Cardinal.  He  quite  agreed  ;  indeed,  it  is 
obvious  how  very  harmful  such  a  thing  as 


Leaves  from  my  Diary        17 

the  condemnation  at  this  time  of  the  pamphlet 
Les  Ordinations  Anglicanes  would  be  before 
the  English  public,  which  would  probably 
credit  the  Cardinal  himself  with  trying  to 
avoid  discussion.  He  said  he  would  at  once 
move  "heaven  and  earth"  to  prevent  any 
notice  being  taken  of  the  denunciation. 

I  told  the  Cardinal  also  that  I  had  been 
directed  to  prepare  a  mhnoire  for  the  Pope  ; 
but  that  I  felt  disinclined  to  write  anything 
on  the  Orders  question  until  I  had  access  to 
all  documents  on  the  subject  in  the  archives 
of  the  Holy  Office.  He  has  promised  to  try 
and  get  me  a  special  Brief  from  the  Pope, 
allowing  me  free  access  to  the  archives  of 
the  Holy  Office,  which  has  successfully 
resisted  all  efforts  to  penetrate  into  its  secrets. 

Friday \  February  15th — After  the  "  Ave 
Maria"  I  went  to  call  on  Cardinal  Rampolla, 
having  been  requested  to  do  so  yesterday  by 
a  message  brought  by  Fr.  Benedict  Mackey. 
The  Cardinal  was  very  pleasant,  but  did  not 
talk  much  about  the  matters  that  were  of 
special  interest  to  me.  One  thing  he  did  say 
which  may  have  importance,  namely  :  that 
the  Pope  was  about  to  write  a  letter  to  the 
English  bishops  on  the  question  of  Unity. 
This  information  I   was  to  keep  to  myself, 


1 8        Leaves  from  my  Diary 

except  that  I  might  communicate  it  to 
Cardinal  Vaughan. 

Sunday,   February    ijth Having    failed 

yesterday  and  again  this  morning  to  find 
Cardinal  Vaughan  at  the  English  College,  I 
wrote  to  tell  him  about  the  proposed  papal 
letter. 

Monday,   February    i8t/i My   note    of 

yesterday  brought  the  Cardinal  round  early 
in  the  afternoon.  He  said  my  letter  was  the 
first  intimation  which  he  had  had  that  the 
Pope  intended  taking  this  course  in  regard 
to  the  Anglican  business,  and  we  had  a  long 
talk  about  it. 

Tuesday,  February  igt/i. — This  morning 
whilst  working  in  the  Vatican  archives,  which 
I  have  done  ever  since  I  have  been  in  Rome, 
I  found  a  Brief  of  Paul  IV  (30th  October, 
1555),  explaining  the  meaning  of  the  words  in 
a  previous  Bull,  "  recte  et  rite  consecrati " — a 
very  important  document.  I  asked  Mgr. 
Wenzel,  the  archivist,  about  it,  and  he  told 
me  that,  whilst  making  some  researches  for 
(I  think)  Cardinal  Galimberti,  he  had  lighted 
upon  it,  but  did  not  know  its  precise  meaning. 

Wednesday,  February  20th, — To-day  in 
the  Regesta  of  Pope  Paul  IV.   I   found  the 


Leaves  from  my  Diary        19 

Bull,  Praeclara  Charissimi,  referred  to  in  the 
Brief  I  found  yesterday.  It  is  of  the  highest 
importance  in  regard  to  the  Orders  question. 

Friday ',  February  22nd.  —  Cardinal 
Vaughan  appeared  suddenly  at  9  o'clock  in 
the  morning  bringing  the  Pope's  document 
giving  me  leave  to  examine  the  papers  in  the 
Holy  Office. 

Wednesday ,  February  2jth.  —  I  wrote 
to-day  to  Cardinal  Rampolla  to  make  a 
suggestion  about  the  letter  he  had  told  me 
the  Holy  Father  was  going  to  write  to  the 
English  bishops.  I  said  that  on  considera- 
tion I  thought  it  would  be  better  received  in 
England  if  it  were  addressed  to  the  English 
people,  or,  if  not  that,  to  the  English  people 
through  Cardinal  Vaughan. 

Thursday,  February  2  8  th.  —  I  called 
to-day  at  the  Holy  Office  and  saw  Mgr. 
Salua.  He  told  me  that  the  permission  I 
had  to  examine  the  papers  as  to  the  English 
Ordinations  was  most  unusual,  that  he  would 
have  to  make  arrangements  with  the 
archivist,  and  that  possibly  about  next  Wed- 
nesday I  should  find  everything  ready. 

Monday,  March  \th — Mgr.  Dunn  called 
on  behalf  of  the  Cardinal  to  ask  me  to  preach 


20        Leaves  from  my  Diary 

on  St.  Gregory's  Feast  at  his  church  on  the 
Coelian.  He  said  that  the  evening  before 
Cardinal  Vaughan  had  dined  with  Cardinal 
Rampolla  at  the  Vatican,  who  had  told  him 
that  the  Pope  had  now  thought  it  better  to 
address  the  letter  he  hoped  to  send  out  soon, 
to  the  Cardinal  himself. 

Tuesday,  March  12th. — I  hear  that  Lord 
Halifax  is  to  arrive  to-day. 

Wednesday,  March  iph. — Lord  Halifax 
called  when  both  I  and  my  friend,  Mr. 
Edmund  Bishop,  who  is  my  constant  com- 
panion during  all  this  period,  were  out.  He 
left  a  card  with  a  message  that  he  would 
call  the  next  day. 

Thursday,  March  \\th. — I  had  a  very 
pleasant  walk  and  long  talk  with  Lord 
Halifax.  It  was  impossible  to  steer  quite 
clear  of  the  question,  and  so  gradually  we 
got  on  to  it.  It  is  obvious  that  Lord  Halifax 
has  been  encouraged  to  raise  the  question  of 
English  Orders,  not  that  he  wants  it  dis- 
cussed, examined  thoroughly  and  determined, 
but  that  he  hopes  the  Pope,  "as  an  act  of 
wisdom  and  kindness,"  may  change  the  tra- 
ditional view  as  to  invalidity,  and  allow  those 
who  are  ordained  according  to  the  Anglican 
Ordinal,    and   who    pass    to    Rome,    to   be 


Leaves  from  my  Diary         21 

ordained  sub  conditions  He  argued  strongly 
that  this  act  of  kindness  would  make  for 
what  all  had  at  heart — reunion. 

I  begged  him  earnestly  to  pause  before 
trying  to  raise  the  thorny  question  of  Angli- 
can Orders.  I  felt  sure  that  there  was  a  real 
danger,  because  I  could  not  conceive  it  pos- 
sible that  the  practice  of  Rome  on  so  import- 
ant a  matter  could  be  changed  without  due 
consideration  and  examination.  If  the  matter 
were  raised,  I  felt  sure,  I  said,  that  the  result 
would  be  the  production  of  such  evidence  as 
would  infallibly  bring  about  condemnation  of 
Anglican  Orders,  and,  I  added,  I  would  far 
rather  leave  matters  where  they  were. 

Friday r,  March  \$th — Lord  Halifax  and 
Mr.  Birkbeck  called  when  I  was  out  and  had 
a  long  talk  with  Mr.  Bishop.  They  left  for 
me  a  work  in  Latin  on  the  question  of 
Anglican  Ordinations — De  Hierarchies  Angli- 
cana — by  Messrs.  Denny  and  Lacey,  which 
has  just  been  published.  I  spent  the  evening 
in  examining  the  book,  and  it  must  clearly  be 
carefully  studied  and  considered.  I  fear  that 
this  publication  will  again  start  the  question 
of  a  Commission  to  examine  into  the  matter, 
which  Cardinal  Mazzella  told  me  the  other 
day  had  been  abandoned.     Indeed,  from  the 


2  2        Leaves  from  my  Diary 

preface  of  the  volume,  contributed  by  the 
Bishop  of  Salisbury,  it  is  obviously  intended 
to  claim  the  consideration  of  the  Roman 
authorities.  I  copy  here  one  passage  from 
this  preface  : 

"  Visum  est  ergo  nonnullis  inter  nos  (quibus- 
cum  amicos  antehac  ignotos,  praesertim  in 
Gallia,  in  hoc  consentire  cum  gaudio  videmus) 
congruum  jam  adesse  tempus  ut  veritatem  de 
Ordinationibus  Anglicanis  fratribus  nostris, 
praecipue  ecclesiae  Latinae,  a  nobis  usque  ex 
saeculo  decimo  sexto  separatis,  denuo  pro- 
ponamus." 

This  in  English  would  be  : 

"It  has  therefore  appeared  to  some  of  us 
(and  as  agreeing  with  us  in  this,  we  gladly 
recognise  certain  friends,  especially  in  France, 
hitherto  unknown)  that  the  proper  time  has 
come  to  submit  (proponamus)  once  more  the 
truth  about  Anglican  Ordinations  to  our 
brethren,  especially  to  those  of  the  Latin 
Church,  who  since  the  16th  century  have 
been  separated  from  us." 

If  this  book  is  circulated  much  in  Rome — 
as  it  is  intended  to  be — it  will  lead  to  a  full 
examination  of  the  question,  I  expect. 

Sunday \  March  ijth.—\  dined  at  the  Irish 
College.     Cardinal  Vaughan  was  there  and 


Leaves  from  my  Diary        23 

told  me  he  had  had  an  interview  with  the 
Pope  the  day  before.  Amongst  other  matters, 
the  Holy  Father  referred  to  the  Anglican 
Orders  question,  saying  that  he  had  satisfied 
himself  that  there  would  be  grave  difficulties 
in  the  way  of  any  change  in  the  practice  of 
the  Church  as  regards  re-ordination.  He 
further  said  that  he  had  had  the  best  authori- 
ties consulted,  and  that  there  (pointing  to  his 
table)  he  had  the  opinions  of  men  qualified  to 
judge  ;  from  these,  he  added,  it  was  clear  that 
without  a  full  examination,  no  change  in  the 
present  attitude  of  the  Church  would  be  pos- 
sible. 

Sunday,  March  2\tlu — I  dined  at  the 
English  College  with  Cardinal  Vaughan. 
Amongst  the  guests  was  Lord  Halifax,  who, 
after  dinner,  came  and  talked  to  me.  He 
was  very  earnest  about  reunion,  and  said  that 
he  thought  the  first  step  would  be  taken  if 
only  the  Pope  would  write  his  letter  to  the 
Archbishop  of  Canterbury.  I  told  him  that, 
in  my  opinion,  such  a  thing  would  be  absurd, 
as  neither  the  Archbishop,  nor,  for  that 
matter,  any  other  Anglicans  that  I  had  come 
across,  had  shown  any  desire  to  make  their 
submission  to  the  Holy  See.  Lord  Halifax 
then  spoke  of  "  Ordinations,"  and  I  told  him 


24        Leaves  from  my  Diary 

that  I  had  looked  at  the  book,  De  Hierarchia 
Anglicana,  which  he  had  left  for  me,  and  that 
it  appeared  to  my  mind,  from  the  Bishop  of 
Salisbury's  preface,  that  it  actually  invited  the 
Roman  authorities  to  hold  an  examination  of 
the  whole  question.  He  deprecated  the  idea 
of  an  examination,  and,  as  far  as  I  could 
make  out,  he  thought  that  the  volume  showed 
a  prima  facie  case  for  a  change  in  the  way 
the  Church  of  Rome  dealt  with  Orders 
received  in  the  Anglican  Church.  That  is  : 
that  there  should  be  not  re-ordination,  but 
ordination  sub  conditione. 

Saturday^  March  30//*. — Lord  Halifax 
called  in  the  early  afternoon  with  the  Abbe 
Portal,  alias  Dalbus,  who  was  obviously  and 
almost  absurdly  nervous.  Lord  Halifax  left 
almost  immediately,  and,  as  I  had  to  go  out, 
the  Abbe  remained  to  talk  with  Mr.  Bishop. 
It  appears  that  M.  Portal  has  been  here  for 
about  a  week  with  Lord  Halifax,  and  is 
known  in  the  hotel  and  elsewhere  as  "  il  cap- 
pellano  di  Milord."  The  Abbe  told  Mr. 
Bishop  that  the  Universe  had  declared  that 
Cardinal  Vaughan  and  the  English  Bishops 
had  urged  the  Holy  Office  to  condemn  him 
and  Duchesne  for  their  attitude  to  the  English 
Orders.     Edmund   Bishop  assured  him  that 


Leaves  from  my  Diary         25 

this  was  absolutely  untrue,  and  that,  to  his 
certain  knowledge,  it  was  Cardinal  Vaughan 
who  had  saved  them,  by  his  prompt  inter- 
vention, directly  he  had  heard  that  they  had 
been  delated  to  the  Holy  Office. 

I  came  back  before  M.  Portal  left  this 
afternoon,  and  he  remained  on  a  short  time 
afterwards.  He  told  us  that  he  believed 
Duchesne  was  going  to  devote  himself  to 
"travailler  pour  l'union."  In  M.  Portal's 
opinion,  the  whole  question  of  the  Ordina- 
tions in  the  Anglican  Church  was  a  theo- 
logical one,  and  that  the  only  historical  facts 
of  interest  and  importance  were  the  Consecra- 
tions of  Barlow  and  of  Parker.  He  was  much 
concerned  when  I  said  that  I  did  not  think 
either  of  these  facts  was  of  much  importance. 
He  was  painfully  on  his  guard  ;  and  of  course, 
as  we  know,  he  has  fought  shy  of  Catholics 
ever  since  he  has  taken  up  the  Anglican  case. 
I  asked  him  what  he  thought  would  be  the 
end  of  the  agitation  he  had  stirred  up  on  the 
question  of  Anglican  Orders,  and  he  replied 
that  his  hopes  were  that  there  would  be  a 
Commission  or  conference  set  on  foot,  in 
which  both  sides  would  be  represented,  and 
that  such  men  as  the  Bishop  of  Salisbury  and 
the  Bishop  of  Peterborough  should  be  mem- 


26         Leaves  from  my  Diary 

bers.  I  told  him  such  a  meeting  would  be 
interesting  and  perhaps  important,  but  that, 
in  my  opinion,  it  was  a  dream,  and  that  any 
deliberate  judgment  of  the  Church  as  to  what 
constituted  Orders,  in  its  own  sense,  must 
result  from  an  examination  made  by  its  own 
theologians,  etc.  From  our  point  of  view,  I 
added,  the  whole  question  is  a  domestic  one. 

Sunday,  March  31J/. — This  afternoon  I 
went  to  see  Cardinal  Vaughan  in  response  to 
a  message  from  him.  I  found  him  disturbed 
in  mind  about  this  unfortunate  Anglican 
Orders  question.  He  had  been  informed  that 
there  was  now  under  consideration  the  forma- 
tion of  a  secret  Commission  to  consider  the 
question.  On  this  Commission  there  was  to 
be  no  Cardinal  at  all,  and  it  was  to  report 
directly  to  the  Pope.  The  Roman  Cardinal 
who  had  originally  told  him  about  this,  had 
expressed  great  anxiety,  and  had  said  that  at 
first  it  had  been  intended  to  put  the  matter 
into  the  hands  of  the  officials  of  the  Holy 
Office.  But  this  was  objected  to — by  whom 
we  do  not  know — as  they  would  be  sure  to 
pass  their  judgment  against  the  validity.  A 
Commission  of  Cardinals  was  then  contem- 
plated, and  some  Cardinals  were  even  asked 
to  take  part  in  it  ;  but  it  was  calculated  that 


Leaves  from  my  Diary         27 

the  result  would  probably  be  the  same.  It 
was  then  proposed  to  have  this  secret  Com- 
mission. Cardinal  Vaughan  told  me  that  he 
had  spoken  strongly  to  Cardinal  Rampolla 
against  such  a  method  of  procedure,  and  said 
that  if  any  examination  of  the  question  were 
held,  it  should  be  made  by  a  properly  con- 
stituted Commission  of  experts. 

Wednesday,  aApril  yd, — I  had  a  long  and 
interesting  walk  with  Lord  Halifax.  We 
spoke,  of  course,  on  religious  matters  a  good 
deal,  and  my  impression  is  that  his  belief  is 
not  Catholic  (I  mean  our)  belief  in  very 
essential  matters.  For  instance,  I  do  not 
think  he  believes  as  I  do  about  the  Blessed 
Eucharist  and  the  Sacrifice  of  the  Mass, 
although  I  had  previously  thought  he  did. 
It  was  rather  a  revelation  to  me,  what  I 
understood  him  to  say  with  regard  to  his 
belief  in  the  Sacrifice.  Also  he  gave  me  to 
understand  that  he  regarded  the  early  reform- 
ers, ]R.idley,  Cranmer  and  Co.,  as  actuated 
merely  by  the  idea  of  cutting  off  superstitions 
and  excrescences,  and  as  being  really  animated 
by  Catholic  principles  and  holding  Catholic 
doctrine. 

In  the  afternoon  Cardinal  Vaughan  came 
from   his  farewell  audience  with   the    Pope. 


28         Leaves  from  my  Diary 

He  brought  a  message  to  me  from  His 
Holiness  that  he  desired  me  to  remain  on  in 
Rome,  as  he  wanted  me  to  do  other  work, 
and,  at  any  rate,  that  I  was  not  to  go  until 
he  gave  permission.  Cardinal  Vaughan 
asked  the  Pope  whether  he  had  settled  about 
having  any  enquiry  into  the  question  of 
Anglican  Ordinations.  The  Pope  replied 
that  at  present  he  had  no  intention  of  appoint- 
ing a  Commission  of  any  kind  to  consider 
the  matter.  That  his  method  was  to  do  one 
thing  at  a  time,  and  that  at  present  he  was 
busy  about  his  letter  on  Unity ;  that  he 
wanted  to  see  how  that  was  received  ;  if  well, 
then  it  might  encourage  him  to  take  another 
step.  Finally,  he  declared  that  he  had  quite 
made  up  his  mind  that  if  any  Commission 
were  appointed  it  should  be  open  and  repre- 
sentative, and  that,  of  course,  there  should  be 
Englishmen  on  it. 

'Thursday,  April  ^.th. — I  saw  Cardinal 
Vaughan  off  on  his  way  to  England  this 
morning  at  9  o'clock. 

Saturday,  aApril  6  th. — I  received  a  visit 
from  Archbishop  Walsh  of  Dublin,  who  had 
that  morning  been  received  by  the  Pope, 
who  questioned  him  about  the  general 
attitude  of  Anglicans  towards  union  with  the 


Leaves  from  my  Diary         29 

Church.  His  Grace  quite  confirmed  the 
notion  given  him  of  late  by  Cardinal  Vaughan 
and  others  that  the  idea  of  any  general 
inclination  towards  the  Church  was  a  myth, 
and  that  the  Holy  Father  had  been  in  this 
matter  entirely  misled  by  foreigners,  who 
were  incapable  of  understanding  the  religious 
situation  in  the  Anglican  Church. 

Sunday,  aApril  jth.  —  In  the  morning 
M.  "Dalbus"  came  to  call.  Mr.  Edmund 
Bishop  and  I  did  our  best  to  get  out  of  him 
his  own  particular  views  on  English  religious 
matters  ;  also,  we  tried  hard  to  understand  the 
role  he  was  playing  and  what  exactly  his 
ceuvre,  as  it  was  called  by  a  Frenchman 
speaking  to  me  yesterday,  really  is.  He 
acknowledged  that  history  showed  clearly 
that  the  English  Reformers  were  quite 
unorthodox  about  the  Holy  Eucharist  and 
the  Sacrifice  of  the  Mass ;  but  he  claimed 
that,  in  some  mysterious  way,  the  general 
"  will "  to  do  what  Christ  intended  covered 
their  admittedly  actual  intention  not  to 
ordain  sacrificing  priests.  The  Abb6  was 
again  very  nervous  and  just  at  a  critical 
point  jumped  up,  saying  he  was  late,  and  fled. 
Mem.  I  don't  think  we  shall  see  him  again, 
although  he  promised  to  return  and  continue 


30        Leaves  from  my  Diary 

our  conversation,  which  so  much  interested 
him. 

'Thursday,  <tApril  nth. — This  is  Maundy 
Thursday,  and  I  went  to  the  chapel  in  the 
temporary  College  of  Sant'  Anselmo  in  the 
Bocca  di  Leone.  Lord  Halifax  and  his 
friend  were  there,  and  these  two  carried 
candles  before  the  Blessed  Sacrament  in  the 
procession  to  the  Altar  of  Repose,  and  knelt 
in  adoration  like  the  rest  of  us.  I  do  not 
wonder  at  Italians  thinking  that  these  high 
Anglicans  are  absolutely  Catholics  in  our 
sense,  taking  part  as  they  do  in  these 
• 'popish  ceremonies." 

Easter  Sunday,  <iApril  \\th. — I  came  to 
the  Abbey  at  Cava  for  a  few  days  yesterday. 
The  abbot  and  monks  were  all  agog,  anxious 
to  hear  when  they  might  expect  to  have  the 
news  of  the  submission  of  the  English  Church 
to  the  Holy  See,  which  they  all  believe  to  be 
imminent,  if  it  had  not  already  taken  place. 
I  tried  to  undeceive  them,  but  did  not  succeed, 
I  fear. 

In  the  afternoon  I  went  to  pay  an  Easter 
visit  to  the  Archbishop  of  Salerno.  He 
overwhelmed  me  with  kindness,  chiefly,  I 
believe,  because  he  thought  I  should  be  able 
to  give  him  information  about  the  return  of 


Leaves  from  my  Diary         31 

England  to  the  unity  of  the  Church.  He 
was  fully  persuaded  that  one  might  at  any 
time  have  in  the  "  Giornali,"  the  full  account 
of  the  submission  of  the  Archbishop  of 
Canterbury  to  the  Pope.  I  did  my  best  to 
laugh  him  out  of  his  notion,  but  I  fancy  he 
regarded  me  as  a  "scoffer,"  and  will  continue 
to  look  in  the  newspapers  for  the  happy 
event  he  was  taught  to  expect  by  some 
French  priests  who  recently  visited  him. 

Tuesday \  aApril  1 6th — To-day  at  Amalfi, 
in  the  reading-room  of  the  hotel,  I  over- 
heard an  English  clergyman  loudly  approving 
the  action  of  the  Archbishop  of  Canterbury 
in  making  it  clear  that  Rome  would  have  to 
give  up  its  distinctive  dogmas  before  it  could 
be  welcomed  to  union  with  the  English 
branch  of  the  Christian  Church. 

Friday,  April  lgt/i. — I  returned  to  Rome 
last  Wednesday  to  find  many  rumours 
Moating  about.  The  interminable  question 
of  the  Anglican  Ordinations  seems  to  be 
everywhere,  and  it  is  impossible  to  escape 
from  it.  It  is  said  that  the  Pope  had  given 
Duchesne  a  medal  for  his  essay  on  Anglican 
Orders,  and  the  fact  is  represented  every- 
where as  a  papal  approval  of  the  Abbe's 
view   of  their   validity.     This,  of  course,  is 


32         Leaves  from  my  Diary 

absurd,  but  it  makes  for  talk,  and  the  fashion 
has  set  in  among  English  visitors  to  assume 
that  the  validity  of  these  Orders  is  certain. 
I  to-day  heard  a  case  of  a  lady,  who  had 
been  received  into  the  Church,  being  laughed 
at  for  taking  the  step,  when  there  could  be 
no  doubt  whatever  that  before  long  Rome 
would  have  to  declare  that  the  Anglican 
Church  was  the  same  as  the  Catholic  and 
Roman  Church,  and  she  might  have  saved 
herself  the  trouble  of  change  and  a  break 
with  the  past. 

This  evening  Fr.  Brandi  called.  He  had 
seen  the  Pope,  who  had  told  him  I  had 
found  in  the  archives  a  Bull  and  a  Brief  of 
Pope  Paul  IV,  dealing  with  Anglican 
Ordinations,  and  he  would  be  glad  to  see 
them. 

I  hear  that  Padre  Semeria,  the  Barnabite, 
has  written  an  article  in  praise  of  Dalbus' 
pamphlet  and  of  the  Latin  work  of  Messrs. 
Denny  and  Lacey.  A  reporter  of  a  German 
paper  tells  me  that  M.  Dalbus  is  quite  certain 
that  the  Pope  is  going  to  deal  with  the  ques- 
tion of  Orders,  according  to  the  suggestions 
he,  M.  Dalbus,  has  made  to  him.  What  this 
means  I  do  not  know. 

I    hear    that    on    Wednesday    last    Lord 


Leaves  from  my  Diary         33 

Halifax,  with  his  wife  and  daughter,  and 
Mr.  Birkbeck  were  at  the  Pope's  Mass. 
Lord  Halifax  asked  for  a  ticket  for  the 
Abbe  Portal.  After  Mass,  they  had  a  brief 
interview  with  the  Holy  Father,  the  Abbe 
being  introduced  as  "il  cappellano  di  Milord." 

Saturday^  <t4pril  2.0th — This  evening  I 
had  a  message  to  go  to  the  Pope.  I  reached 
the  Vatican  about  6  o'clock,  and  was  received 
by  the  Holy  Father  immediately.  The 
reasons  for  his  sending  for  me  were  chiefly 
two.  I  had  for  weeks  been  waiting  to  get 
access  to  the  papers  of  the  Holy  Office,  for 
which  I  had  obtained  his  permission.  For 
one  reason  or  another  I  had  been  constantly 
put  off,  and,  somewhat  losing  patience,  I  had 
written  to  the  Vatican  to  know  whether  the 
Pope  wanted  me  to  see  the  papers  or  not. 
The  reply  came  in  the  form  of  an  order  to 
come  to  see  the  Pope.  He  had  himself,  on 
hearing  my  letter,  sent  for  the  papers,  and 
had  arranged  for  me  to  have  a  room  in  the 
Vatican  in  which  to  examine  them. 

The  other  matter  he  desired  to  ask  about 
was  his  letter  on  Unity  (Ad  Anglos).  It 
had  been  agreed  that  the  English  translation 
should  appear  on  the  same  day  as  the  pub- 
lication in  Rome,  and  for  this  purpose  it  had 


34        Leaves  from  my  Diary 

been  settled  that  the  date  upon  which  both 
should  be  issued  should  be  next  Monday 
(April  22nd).  By  some  mistake  the  Times 
printed  the  document  to-day  (Saturday,  20th), 
and  the  Holy  Father  had  received  a  tele- 
gram, which  he  showed  me,  telling  him  of 
this,  and  wanting  some  explanation.  He 
was  not  at  all  pleased,  as  the  letter  had  not 
yet  been  issued  to  the  Cardinals. 

The  Pope  again  asked  me  for  the  paper 
on  Anglican  Orders  which  he  had  ordered 
me  to  write  some  time  back.  "  Why  have  I 
not  had  it  ? "  he  asked.  I  replied  that  I  had 
found  it  impossible  to  write  anything  until  I 
had  been  able  to  examine  all  the  documents, 
of  which  those  he  had  just  given  me  were 
the  most  important,  from  one  point  of  view. 
"But," he  answered,  "I  have  several  opinions 
there  (pointing  to  his  table),  all  of  which 
have  been  written  without  sight  of  these 
documents."  "Yes,"  I  answered,  "I  have 
no  doubt.  I  cannot  say  how  others  can  give 
any  opinion  of  value  without  knowing  the 
facts,  but  I  can't."  Upon  which  the  Holy 
Father  patted  me  on  the  head  and  said 
"  Bravo  !    that  is  quite  proper." 

Wednesday r,  May  1st. — To-day  I  finished 
a    brief     statement     of     my   view    on    the 


Leaves  from  my  Diary         35 

Anglican  Ordinations  question,  and  this 
evening  I  gave  it  to  the  Holy  Father.  It 
is  time  for  me  to  be  returning  to  England, 
and  so  I  took  this  opportunity  to  ask  the 
Pope's  leave  to  set  out  homeward.  In  giving 
me  this  permission,  the  Holy  Father  told  me 
that  I  should  probably  be  sent  for  next  year. 
He  had  not  yet  quite  made  up  his  mind 
whether  the  question  of  Anglican  Orders, 
which  was  being  pressed  upon  him,  would 
have  to  be  examined  at  all.  If  it  was 
decided  to  hold  an  examination,  which  at 
present  remained  doubtful,  he  would  require 
me  to  come  back  and  be  one  member  of  the 
Commission  of  Consultors. 

Tuesday,  May  jth — I  am  leaving  Rome 
to-day  for  England  with  Mr.  Edmund 
Bishop.  Our  intention  is  to  remain  for  a 
few  days  in  Paris. 

Sunday,  May  12th. — I  left  Mr.  Bishop  in 
Paris  yesterday,  and  came  on  here  (St. 
Edmund's,  Douai).  I  want  to  examine 
Cardinal  Pole's  Register,  which  is  in  the 
town  archives.  I  do  not  expect  to  find 
any  trace  of  the  Bull  of  Paul  IV.  in  this 
Register,  as  it  has  been  examined  by  many 
people,  and  notably  by  Canon  Estcourt,  to 
whom   the    Bull  Praeclara   that   I   found  in 


36         Leaves  from  my  Diary 

Rome  would  have  been  a  most  important 
document.  However,  it  is  worth  looking 
carefully  to-morrow. 

Monday ,  May  \ph. —  I  was  early  this 
morning  at  the  Archives,  and  went  through 
the  two  volumes  of  Pole's  Register.  In  the 
afternoon  I  found  a  copy  of  this  Bull  Prae- 
clara  Charissimi  entered  in  the  second 
volume,  together  with  the  attestation  of 
Cardinal  Pole  that  he  had  received  it,  dated 
September  22nd,  1555. 

'June  zjth. — To-day  I  received  a  letter 
from  Rome  telling  me  that  so  far  nothing 
had  been  decided  as  to  the  holding  of  any 
Commission  about  Anglican  Ordinations. 
The  matter  was  constantly  being  kept  before 
the  mind  of  the  Pope,  but  the  tendency  was 
to  encourage  some  sort  of  a  change  in  prac- 
tice, on  the  ground  of  kindness,  rather  than 
the  holding  of  an  examination.  The  writer 
tells  me  that  Messrs.  Denny  and  Lacey's 
De  Hierarchia  Anglicana  is  being  spread 
about  and  much  read,  and  that  the  Bishop 
of  Salisbury's  Preface  is  being  quoted  as  a 
proof  of  a  genuine  submission  to  the  judg- 
ment of  the  Holy  See,  and  of  a  bond-fide 
desire  for  re-union.  Several  documents, 
which  have  been  drawn  up  on  the  subject  of 


Leaves  from  my  Diary         37 

Anglican  Orders,  have  been  printed  ready  to 
form  the  basis  of  any  discussion,  should  any 
such  be  decided  on.  The  authorities  in  Rome 
find  the  greatest  difficulty  in  understanding 
how  people  can  call  themselves  Catholic  and 
Apostolic,  etc.,  without  meaning  exactly  the 
same  as  we  do,  and  holding  the  same  beliefs 
as  we  do.  The  Pope  remarked  the  other 
day  to  a  Cardinal  that  this  use  of  words  was 
misleading,  and  that  some  years  ago,  to  his 
knowledge,  when  a  person  said  he  was  a 
Catholic,  he  meant  that  he  was  a  Roman 
Catholic. 

August  jth — A  letter  from  Cardinal 
Vaughan  says  that  he  has  urged  the  Holy 
Father  again  not  to  "  change  the  practice  of 
the  Church  for  three  hundred  years  without 
the  fullest  investigation  and  without  the 
co-operation  of  the  representatives  of  the 
Catholic  Church  in  England.  I  ask  only  for 
the  fullest  investigation  before  any  decision 
is  come  to  on  so  important  a  matter,  no 
matter  what  the  decision  may  be." 


1896. 

January  6th,  1896. — A  copy  of  a  tract  in 
French  on  the  English  Ordinations,  just 
published,  was  sent  to  me  by  order  of  the 
Pope.  It  must  be  studied  ;  but  my  glance 
through  its  pages  has  made  me  think  that 
some  people  must  constantly  be  working  to 
make  it  certain  that  whatever  happens  there 
shall  certainly  be  no  decision  given  by  any 
Commission  that  may  be  held,  unless  it  can 
be  secured  that  that  decision  is  favourable  to 
the  validity.  In  a  note,  the  author  of  the 
tract  asserts  that  motives  of  expediency 
might  induce  the  Holy  See  not  to  pronounce 
on  the  matter  at  all.  This  seems  to  me  to 
show  that  the  writer  has  forgotten  that  it 
is  a  question  of  reiterating  a  Sacrament, 
and  that  if  the  Holy  See,  after  inquiry,  were 
convinced  of  the  validity  of  Anglican  Orders, 
or  of  even  a  reasonable  doubt,  it  would  be  a 
positive  duty  to  declare  the  truth.  The 
author  cannot  mean  this,  I  fancy,  and  so  I 
think  he  is  preparing  the  way  for  there  being 
no  decision  at  all,  in  the  event  of  the  Com- 


Leaves  from  my  Diary         39 

mission  finding  that,  from  the  Church's  point 
of  view,  Anglican  Orders  must  be  regarded 
as  invalid. 

February  2nd. — Having  read  this  French 
brochure,  I  have  to-day  sent  the  author  a  few 
remarks  upon  it,  according  to  his  request, 
and  a  copy  of  my  criticisms  to  the  Holy 
Father. 

February  6th. — I  hear  to-day  from  Rome 
that  I  shall  probably  be  wanted  soon,  as  the 
Pope  speaks  of  appointing  the  long-talked-of 
Commission  almost  at  once.  Duchesne  is 
said  to  have  given  out  his  determination  to 
work  so  as  to  have  the  question  of  Anglican 
Ordinations  settled,  apart  from  the  historical 
setting  of  facts  ;  and  hence  many,  I  am  told, 
now  think  in  Rome  that  a  direction  to  hold 
re-ordination  sub  conditione  will  be  the  final 
result  of  such  restricted  enquiry.  If  this 
cannot  be  secured  and  a  decision  adverse  to 
the  validity  is  come  to,  it  is  hoped  that  at 
least  the  result  will  be  a  questio  dilata  with 
no  formal  decision. 

February  1  \th. — There  is  some  news  this 
morning  about  the  projected  Commission. 
On  Monday,  February  2nd,  the  Daily 
Chronicle  announced  that  the  first  session  of 
the  Commission  would  be  held  on  the  follow- 


40        Leaves  from  my  Diary 

ing  Sunday.  In  response  to  a  telegram  of 
enquiry,  I  was  informed  from  Rome  that  the 
news  was  a  little  "previous."  But  to-day 
brings  news  of  the  appointment  of  Mgr. 
Merry  del  Val  as  the  Secretary  of  the  Com- 
mission. The  same  letter  tells  me  that 
"  great  efforts  are  being  made  to  prepare  the 
way  for  a  sub  conditione  result,"  and  that  it  is 
thought  "  that  at  least  it  will  be  possible  to 
secure  for  the  Anglicans  that  the  question  be 
declared  dilata  " — that  is,  shelved  sine  die. 

March  i^th.  —  A  letter  received  from 
Mgr.  Merry  del  Val,  as  Secretary  of  the 
Commission  appointed  to  deal  with  the 
question  of  Anglican  Orders,  tells  me  that 
the  Pope  expects  us — i.e.,  Canon  Moyes,  Fr. 
David  Fleming  and  me — in  Rome  by  the 
19th.  This  afternoon  brought  a  line  from 
Canon  Moyes  saying  that  he  had  heard  from 
Cardinal  Vaughan  that  we  were  to  start 
immediately. 

Monday ',  ^March  1 6th.  —  This  morning 
Canon  Moyes,  Fr.  David  and  self  reached 
Paris  on  our  way  to  Rome. 

Friday  1    JMarch    20th We    arrived    in 

Rome  about  midnight  yesterday,  and  the 
first  thing  this  morning  we  sent  word  to  the 
Vatican  that  we  had  come.    We  had  brought 


Leaves  from  my  Diary         4.1 

out  some  copies  of  the  Expositio  on  the 
Anglican  Orders  we  had  drawn  up,  and 
sent  two,  with  one  copy  of  Cranmer's  works 
for  the  purpose  of  reference,  to  the  Vatican. 
We  were  informed  that  the  procedure  in  the 
examination  of  the  Anglican  Orders  question 
about  to  beg-in  would  be  as  follows.  First 
we  were  clearly  to  understand  that  we  had 
not  to  settle  or  determine  anything.  We 
were  consultors,  only  charged  to  discuss  the 
various  questions  and  to  prepare  the  evidence, 
etc.,  for  the  Cardinals  who  would  have  to 
decide. 

Cardinal  Mazzella,  who  we  understand  has 
been  relieved  of  all  other  work  for  the 
present,  is  to  preside  at  the  meetings  to  be 
held  at  the  Vatican.  The  three  members  of 
this  Commission,  besides  us  three  from  Eng- 
land, are  Monsignor  Gasparri,  the  Abbe 
Duchesne  and  the  Jesuit  Professor  of  the 
Roman  College,  De  Augustinis.  The  pro- 
ceedings are  to  be  private,  and  I  understand 
Cardinal  Mazzella  is  going  to  explain  at  the 
first  session  that  everything  is  to  be  con- 
sidered as  confidential,  and  not  to  go  beyond 
our  own  selves.  The  various  "  papers  "  or 
mtmoires,  or  vota,  which  are  printed,  are  to 
be  distributed  as  confidential  documents  and 


42         Leaves  from  my  Diary 

time  is  to  be  given  for  study  and,  if  necessary, 
reply.  After  as  many  meetings  of  this  kind 
have  been  held  as  may  be  thought  necessary, 
the  results  of  the  discussions  with  the 
minutes  of  the  meetings  will  go  together 
with  all  documents  and  papers  on  the  subject 
to  the  Holy  Office.  Then,  as  I  understand 
the  proposed  procedure,  when  these  papers, 
etc.,  have  been  digested  and  considered,  the 
question  will  go  before  the  Cardinals  of  the 
Holy  Office,  who  will  all  study  it,  and  when 
they  are  ready  to  report,  there  will  be  a  full 
Congregation  at  which  the  Pope  himself  will 
preside.  Then,  after  hearing  all  opinions,  he 
(the  Pope),  will  take  the  matter  into  his  own 
hands,  and  after  a  delay  for  prayer  and  con- 
sideration will  decide  the  question,  or,  if  he 
thinks  fit,  as  some  are  strongly  urging  upon 
him,  if  he  cannot  pronounce  for  a  change  of 
practice  to  the  sub  conditione  re-ordination, 
he  will  declare  the  question  dilata,  that  is, 
will  give  no  decision  at  all. 

I  hear  that  some  English  Catholics  have 
put  in  a  memorial  to  the  effect  that  "  their 
party  is  not  represented  "  on  the  Commission. 
I  suppose  them  to  mean  that  Father  Scannell, 
who  is  believed  to  be  in  favour  of  the  validity 
of  the  Orders,  is  not  a  member.     It  certainly 


Leaves  from  my  Diary         43 

would  be  a  good  thing  if  this  can  be  arranged, 
so  that  the  whole  question  may  be  threshed 
out  from  every  point  of  view. 

Sunday,  March  22nd, — Father  David, 
Canon  Moves,  and  I  were  asked  to  call  upon 
Cardinal  Mazzella,  which  we  did  at  the 
"Ave  Maria."  He  received  us  most 
graciously,  and  immediately  spoke  of  the 
business  that  had  brought  us  to  Rome.  He 
said  he  greatly  regretted  that  he  had  been 
given  charge  of  this  matter,  but  that  he 
looked  upon  it  as  a  point  of  obedience.  We 
replied  that  to  all  of  us  in  England  it  was  a 
matter  of  great  regret  that  this  burning 
question  of  Anglican  Ordinations  had  ever 
been  raised  at  all  ;  but  that  as  it  had  been 
brought  forward,  it  seemed  to  us  necessary 
that  it  should  be  thoroughly  examined  and  a 
definite  decision,  whatever  it  might  be,  come 
to.  He  told  us  that  he  knew  we  English  had 
not  pressed  this  question  forward,  and  that 
the  promoters  were  certain  Frenchmen,  and 
that,  in  his  opinion,  it  was  now  important 
that  the  whole  question  should  be  con- 
sidered in  the  light  of  historical  evidence  ;  the 
theological  side  must  be  combined  with  the 
consideration  of  the  facts.  This,  he  said,  is  the 
great  difficulty  for  foreigners  ;  and  he  forth- 


44        Leaves  from  my  Diary 

with  illustrated  what  he  meant  by  telling  us 
that  a  very  able  man  "  happened  to  be  a  few 
months  ago  in  Rome,  and  came  to  tell  me 
that  he  was  anxious  to  complete  certain  parts 
of  a  tract  he  was  desirous  to  write  on  this 
question  of  the  English  Orders,  and  that  he 
knew  little  about  the  history  of  the  question 
beyond  what  he  had  learned  in  the  Roman 
Schools.  Whereupon  I  impressed  upon  him 
the  necessity  of  reading  the  best  and  most 
recent  English  works  written  upon  the  sub- 
ject. '  You  know  English,  of  course  ? '  I 
said.  To  my  surprise  he  replied  that  he  was 
quite  ignorant  of  the  language  ;  and  yet," 
added  the  Cardinal,  "  without  a  knowledge  of 
English  it  seems  to  me  that  it  is  almost  im- 
possible to  form  any  true  judgment  of  this 
matter." 

At  9  p.m.  we  received  a  letter  from  the 
Vatican,  marked  urgente,  to  inform  us  that 
the  Pope  desired  to  receive  us  in  audience 
to-morrow  at  noon  ;  and  that  the  first  confer- 
ence would  be  held  on  Tuesday  at  10.30  in  a 
room  prepared  on  the  first  floor  of  the 
Vatican. 

<£Monday,  March  zyd. — At  noon  we  were 
received  by  the  Holy  Father,  who  talked  at 
some   length    upon    the    business   that   had 


Leaves  from  my  Diary        45 

brought  us  to  Rome.  In  response  to  some- 
thing we  said  as  to  its  being  unfortunate  that 
the  question  had  ever  been  raised,  the  Pope 
said  that  it  had  been  forced  upon  him  by  cer- 
tain Frenchmen  acting  for  some  Anglicans, 
and  that  it  was  necessary  that  it  should  be 
determined  once  for  all,  now  that  so  much  had 
been  heard  about  it.  His  Holiness  told  us 
that  he  trusted  we  would  keep  our  delibera- 
tions strictly  to  ourselves,  and  not  allow 
things  to  get  into  the  newspapers.  We  shall 
all  be  under  the  Secretum  Pontificium,  and 
this,  he  said,  with  a  laugh,  may  not  be  neces- 
sary for  Englishmen,  who  can  hold  their 
tongues,  but  others  perhaps  are  more  "  tigers" 
and  would  talk  outside  to  journalists  and 
others.  At  the  conclusion  of  the  interview 
the  Pope  told  us  he  was  engaged  on  an 
encyclical  letter  on  The  Church,  and  asked 
us  to  translate  it  for  him  into  English. 

On  leaving  the  Vatican  we  met  a  friend, 
who  told  us  he  had  just  seen  Duchesne,  who 
had  expressed  his  dislike  of  the  whole  matter. 
He  said  he  had  no  wish  to  have  anything  to  do 
with  the  case,  and  that  practically  all  he  knew 
he  had  got  from  the  pamphlet  of  Dalbus. 

Tuesday,  £March  z\th. — We  had  to-day 
our  first  meeting  in  the  Vatican.      Cardinal 

5 


46         Leaves  from  my  Diary 

Mazzella  presided  at  one  end  of  a  long  table 
with  rounded  ends.  On  the  right  side  sat  in 
order  Mgr.  Gasparri,  The  Abbe  Duchesne 
and  Padre  De  Augustinis  :  on  the  left  side 
of  the  Cardinal  were  Canon  Moyes,  myself 
and  Fr.  David.  Mgr.  Merry  del  Val,  as  secre- 
tary, sat  at  a  small  table  at  the  right  of  our 
bigger  table.  The  Cardinal  was  in  the  full 
state  dress  of  a  Cardinal,  and  the  scarlet  silk 
table-cover  with  the  silver  inkstands  set  before 
each  of  us,  made  me  realise  that  we  were 
about  to  hold  the  first  of  a  series  of  meetings 
of  no  ordinary  importance. 

The  proceedings  commenced,  after  prayers, 
with  an  address  from  Cardinal  Mazzella,  in 
which  he  exhorted  all  to  speak  frankly  and 
fully  on  the  matters  that  were  to  be  discussed. 
He  ended  by  asking  the  Secretary  to  read  a 
letter  addressed  to  him  by  Cardinal  Rampolla, 
placing  us  all  under  the  pontifical  secret  in 
regard  to  our  meetings. 

Some  question  was  then  raised  as  to  the 
propriety  of  allowing  Anglican  representatives 
to  attend  our  meetings  and  to  take  part  in 
our  discussions  ;  but  Cardinal  Mazzella  at 
once  pointed  out  that  this  was  a  matter 
entirely  outside  our  functions.  We  were  met 
at  the  invitation  of  the  Pope  to  consider  a 


Leaves  from  my  Diary         47 

question  that,  however  it  might  interest  those 
who  were  not  members  of  the  Church,  was 
entirely  a  domestic  one — namely,  the  deter- 
mination whether  certain  Orders  could  be  so 
regarded  as  valid  according  to  our  Catholic 
principles.  It  was  a  domestic  question,  and 
so  far  as  we  were  concerned  our  work  was 
merely  to  sift  the  evidence  and  prepare  it  for 
further  consideration  and  final  determination. 
The  Cardinal  further  pointed  out  that  even 
if  we  could  admit  Anglican  representatives,  it 
would  be  difficult,  if  not  impossible,  to  say 
who  properly  would  represent  the  view  of  the 
English  Established  Church.  Quite  as  many 
members  of  that  Church  disbelieved  in  the 
validity  of  their  Orders,  in  our  sense,  as 
believed  in  them  :  that  a  great  number  would 
scout  the  idea  that  they  were  priests  in  our 
sense. 

It  was  agreed  that  all  the  members  of  our 
Commission  should  have  before  them  the 
views  as  to  the  nature  of  Orders  and  the  Sac- 
raments held  by  both  the  High  and  the  Low 
Church  parties.  The  various  papers,  which 
had  been  printed,  were  then  distributed,  and 
we  adjourned  till  Tuesday  in  Easter  week. 

Wednesday ,  March  25///. — We  to-day  had 
a  visit  of  considerable  length  from  a  member 


48         Leaves  from  my  Diary 

of  the  Commission  to  discuss  the  question  of 
"  the  hour  " — the  Anglican  Ordinations.  He 
told  us  that  he  did  not  read  English,  and  so 
had  not  studied  the  matter  in  any  English 
books  on  the  subject.  He  had  formed  his 
views  mainly  from  the  pamphlet  of  Dalbus 
and  the  Latin  De  Hierarchies  Anglicana  of 
Messrs.  Denny  and  Lacey.  He  thought 
that  if  the  matter  was  to  be  decided  in  the 
usual  way  of  the  Roman  Congregations,  a 
positive  and  even  scientific  decision  would 
be  difficult,  and  he  thought  that,  as  the  result 
of  the  present  enquiry,  the  practice  of  ordina- 
tion sub  conditione  would  be  introduced. 

Friday,  £March  2jth. — We  heard  to-day 
on  what  is  apparently  good  authority  that 
Lord  Halifax  had  communicated  to  the 
Pope,  through  one  of  the  Commission,  his 
opinion  that  if  any  decision  adverse  to  the 
validity  of  their  Orders  was  arrived  at  and 
published,  there  would  be  an  end  to  reunion 
for  ever.  In  this  view,  the  Pope  was 
informed,  the  Archbishops  of  Canterbury 
and  York  and  the  Anglican  bishops  generally 
agreed.  Other  people,  too,  are  already  play- 
ing the  "  diplomatic  stop  "  in  the  same  sense, 
although  really  we  have  not  begun  our  work 
yet.    It  is  difficult  to  believe  that  after  all  the 


Leaves  from  my  Diary        49 

fuss  and  trouble  our  work  will  be  thrown 
away,  and  that  no  decision  will  be  given, 
unless  the  decision  be  in  favour  of  the  Orders, 
or  declaring  them  doubtful.  The  situation  is 
almost  comical,  if  it  were  not  so  serious.  We 
certainly  have  done  nothing  to  bring  about 
this  unfortunate  discussion  ;  but  holding  as 
we  do  that  the  Orders  are  invalid,  we  are 
hoping  to  prove  this  to  the  satisfaction  of 
those  who  will  have  ultimately  to  judge  the 
question.  The  party  who  have  raised  the 
matter  are  apparently  determined  to  prevent 
any  adverse  decision,  should  it  appear  that 
this  is  likely  to  be  the  final  result.  It 
reminds  one  of  the  man  who  would  not 
consent  to  a  person  proposed  as  an  arbitrator 
unless  he  would  previously  pledge  himself  to 
give  the  award  in  his  favour. 

^Monday \*March  30///. — I  was  told  to-day 
that  there  could  be  no  doubt  that  the  plan  of 
the  French  promoters  of  this  question  and  of 
their  Anglican  friends  is  to  secure  the  sub 
conditions  result  of  the  Commission.  An 
Anglican  friend  said  to-day  that  they  had 
been  assured  by  several  Catholic  priests  that 
it  would  be  impossible  for  the  Holy  See  to 
decide  that  the  Anglican  Orders  were  invalid. 
I   replied  that  we  must  wait  and  see.     No 


50         Leaves  from  my  Diary 

one   can    tell,    and    it    is   always    dangerous 
"  to  prophesy  till  you  know." 

Wednesday,  aApril  ist. — We  learn  to-day 
that  Cardinal  Vaughan  is  sending  out 
Father  Scannell  at  the  Pope's  suggestion. 
It  appears  that  it  was  represented  to  the 
Holy  Father,  as  I  have  before  noted,  that 
there  were  some  Catholic  priests  in  England 
who  did  not  take  the  same  views  on  the 
subject  of  Anglican  Orders  which  we  (i.e., 
Canon  Moyes,  Father  David  and  I)  held,  or 
were  supposed  to  hold.  The  Pope  was  given 
the  name  of  Father  Scannell  and  he  ordered 
a  letter  to  be  written  to  Cardinal  Vaughan  to 
suggest  that  either  Fr.  S.  or  someone  holding 
the  same  views,  should  be  sent  out  to  take 
part  in  the  work  of  the  Commission.  This  is 
a  very  wise  move,  and  as  the  Cardinal,  we 
suppose,  will  have  to  find  the  money  for 
expenses,  this  should  be  a  positive  proof  of 
his  desire  to  get  at  the  truth. 

Friday,  April  yd. — We  hear  to-day  that 
the  Holy  Father  has  nominated  as  a  member 
of  our  Commission,  together  with  Father 
Scannell,  P.  Giuseppe  Calasanzio  de 
Llevaneras,  a  Capuchin.*     He  is  said  to  be 

*  Now  Cardinal  Vives  y  Tuto,  Prefect  of  the  Congregation 
of  Religious. 


Leaves  from  my  Diary         5 1 

a  first  rate  man  and  is  a  consultor  of  the 
Holy  Office.  He  was  also  quite  prepared 
for  the  work  of  the  Commission,  as  he  had 
already  written  his  opinion  on  the  question 
for  the  Holy  Father. 

Saturday,  April  4th. — Fr.  Scannell  arrived 
this  morning,  but  as  there  was  no  room  at 
San  Silvestro,  where  we  three  were  staying, 
he  had  to  go  to  the  English  College.  It  has 
already  got  about  Rome,  in  the  marvellous 
way  in  which  rumours  circulate  in  the  Eternal 
City,  that  Fr.  S.  has  come  out  to  represent 
the  Anglican  side  in  this  discussion. # 

Tuesday,  April  yth — We  met  at  the 
Vatican  for  our  second  session  at  10  o'clock. 
The  two  new  members  were  present.  The 
disposition  of  the  room  was  somewhat 
changed.  A  long  square  table  was  sub- 
stituted for  the  oblong  one  and  Mgr.  Merry 
del  Val  sat  at  the  end  opposite  to  Cardinal 
Mazzella,  having  Fr.  Scannell  on  his  right 
and  Padre  Llevaneras  on  his  left.  The 
discussion  was  chiefly  confined  to  the  con- 
sideration of  the  practice  of  the  Church  in 
its  treatment  of  Anglican  Orders,  and  the 
origin  of  the  practice. 

*  Mr.  Lacey  says,  A  Roman  Diary,  p.  38.  "  Scannell 
frankly  says  he  doe9  not  believe  in  the  validity,  but  he  is 
working  for  no  decision  at  all.1' 


52         Leaves  from  my  Diary 

Thursday \  aApril  gth. — We  held  our  third 
session  this  morning,  the  discussion  all  turn- 
ing on  the  Bull  and  Brief  of  Paul  IV. 

Saturday,  aApril  nth. — To-day  we  met 
for  the  fourth  time.*  Most  of  the  morning 
was  taken  up  with  a  consideration  of  the  two 
decisions  of  1684  and  1704^ 

Monday,  <t/[pril  1  yh.  —  This  morning 
was  our  fifth  session,  and  it  was  occupied  in 
considering   the    Praxis   of    the    Church   in 

*  Mr.  Lacey,  Ibid.,  p.  32,  writes,  "  Ap.  1 1.  Called  on  Gasparri 
at  8.30  to  take  him  a  copy  of  the  register  of  Ferrar's  consecra- 
tion, and  some  notes.  The  session  of  the  Commission  at  10  a.m. 
.  .  .  afternoon.  .  .  .  Duchesne  reported  that  our  information 
had  been  very  useful  at  the  morning  session,  and  had  fully 
established  the  fact  that  Ferrar  was  consecrated  according  to 
the  Pontifical."  Here  Mr.  Lacey  must  have  entirely  mis- 
understood the  Abbe's  remarks,  for  nothing  of  the  kind 
happened  at  the  Commission.  The  question  of  Ferrar's 
consecration  was  indeed  raised,  but  so  far  from  the  result 
being  to  "  fully  establish  the  fact  that  Ferrar  was  consecrated 
according  to  the  Pontifical,"  the  majority  agreed  that  there 
had  certainly  been  some  changes  made  in  the  rite,  and  that 
the  Catholics  of  England  at  the  time,  and  since,  had  never 
regarded  Ferrar  as  a  Bishop.  This  view  was  strengthened 
by  the  fact  that  at  the  time  of  his  degradation  he  was 
regarded  merely  as  a  priest,  ordained  according  to  the 
Pontifical,  and  was  degraded  from  the  priesthood  only,  by 
those  who  may  be  presumed  to  have  known  that,  though  he 
was  called  a  Bishop  by  the  reforming  party,  he  had  not  been 
consecrated  validly. 

f  Mr.  Lacey  {Ibid.,  p.  135),  says  that  "in  the  Commission 
Cardinal  Mazzella  refused  to  let  the  consultors  go  behind  the 
Gordon  decision  :  they  were  consultors  of  the  Holy  Office 
and  were  bound  by  all  its  decisions."  This  impression  of  Mr. 
Lacey  is  quite  unfounded.  From  the  very  beginning  it  was 
clearly  understood  that  we  were  perfectly  free  to  adduce  any 
arguments  or  bring  forth  any  factum  novum  which  might 
alter  or  modify  the  previous  practice  of  the  Holy  See.  In 
point  of  fact  the  whole  ground-work  of  the  Gordon  decision 
was  fully  discussed  and  re-examined. 


Leaves  from  my  Diary         53 

re-ordaining  Anglican  ministers  from  the 
earliest  time  that  there  was  any  question 
with  regard  to  any  one  ordained  according 
to  the  Anglican  Ordinal.  Also  the  evidence 
that  in  the  time  of  Pole,  the  Orders  which  had 
not  been  bestowed  according  to  the  ancient 
Catholic  Pontifical  were  disregarded  as 
Orders. # 

We  were  asked  to  give  in  writing  our 
opinions  whether,  granting  the  practice  of 
the  Church,  there  could  be  shown  to  exist 
any  "  gravis  sima  ratio"  why  that  practice 
should  be  changed. 

Wednesday,  zApril  1  $th. —  This  morning 
we  had  a  long  talk  with  Padre  de  Augustinis 
in  our  room.  He  appears  to  think  that  we 
shall  all  agree  as  to  the  invalid  nature  of  the 

*  According-  to  Mr.  Lacey  (Ibid.,  p.  35),  the  Abbe  Duchesne 
reported  to  him  the  next  day,  April  14th,  "that  out  of  forty 
cases  alleged  by  Moyes,  in  which  Pole  or  those  acting  under 
his  authority  had  refused  to  recognise  the  Edwardine  Orders, 
he  had  demolished  thirty-eight  and  a  half.  This  has  much 
impressed  de  Augustinis."  Most  of  Mr.  Lacey 's  readers  will 
naturally  conclude  that  this  was  done  at  the  meeting  of  the 
Commission.  I  would  point  out,  however,  that  the  Abbe  did 
not  say  so,  and  this  wholesale  destruction  was  certainly  not 
accomplished  in  any  session  of  the  Commission.  Possibly 
Duchesne  was  recording  the  result  of  a  meeting  thus 
recorded  by  Mr.  Lacey  (p.  33).  "  Ap.  12,  Low  Sunday — 
afternoon.  Duchesne  and  Gasparri  came  by  appointment  and 
we  did  three  hours'  hard  work  investigating  the  cases  alleged 
by  Moyes  as  showing  that  Pole  rejected  the  Edwardine 
Orders.  Duchesne  is  satisfied  that  Pole  made  no  distinction 
between  the  men  ordained  by  the  two  rites,  but  Gasparri  is  of 
the  contrary  opinion." 


54         Leaves  from  my  Diary 

Form  used  in  the  Anglican  rite  ;  but  that 
practically,  in  view  of  the  opinions  of  some 
theologians  and  others  who  have  expressed 
the  opinions  they  have  done,  the  result  will 
be  to  let  the  Anglicans  down  easily  by 
declaring  the  Orders  doubtful,  and  give  the 
sub  conditione  solution.  He  thought  it  would 
please  everyone  if  we  could  agree  to  this. 
We  told  him  that  it  was  impossible  to  agree 
to  anything  that  could  not  be  made  to  square 
with  the  facts  ;  and  that  any  decision  given 
on  the  ground  that  it  would  be  a  "  kind  act  " 
seemed  to  us  unworthy  of  serious  men 
charged  with  a  serious  duty.  Here  we  are 
again  :  always  and  everywhere  we  are  met 
with  the  same  suggestion  of  a  sub  conditione 
conclusion.  I  cannot  believe  that  in  the  end, 
as  sensible  beings,  we  shall  have  to  take 
refuge  in  a  change  of  practice  without  some 
reason,  "as  an  act  of  kindness."  Of  course, 
if,  as  a  result  of  the  discussion,  we  are  con- 
vinced that  the  Anglican  Orders  are  valid, 
or  doubtful,  we  must  as  honest  men  report  in 
that  sense  ;  and  similarly,  if  we  are  convinced 
of  their  invalidity,  we  are  bound  to  say  so. 
But  why  this  determination  to  work  out  one 
solution  because  this  would  give  pleasure  to 
Frenchmen  and  Anglicans  ? 


Leaves  from  my  Diary         55 

Saturday,  April  18///. — The  sixth  session 
was  held  to-day,  and  lasted  from  10  to  1. 
After  the  minutes  or  acta  of  the  last  meeting 
had  been  passed,  the  written  replies  to  the 
questions  proposed  to  us  by  Cardinal  Maz- 
zella  at  last  meeting  were  read  and  handed 
to  the  Secretary. 

Sunday,  April  igtli. — We  had  asked  from 
the  Holy  Office  some  cases  to  show  the 
practice  of  the  Church  as  to  re-ordination  and 
ordination  sub  conditione.  To-day  the  Asses- 
sore  of  the  Holy  Office  furnishes  a  great 
number  of  modern  cases,  and  from  these  it 
appears  clear  that  if  the  1st  and  2nd  imposi- 
tion of  hands  has  been  left  out,  the  practice 
is  to  ordain  absolute  again.  If  the  third 
imposition,  then  the  re-ordination  is  sub 
conditione. 

Tuesday,  April  21st. — The  seventh  ses- 
sion, put  off  from  yesterday,  was  held  this 
morning.  The  case  of  Barlow  occupied  us 
most  of   the  morning  ;#  the  question  of  co- 

*  Mr.  Lacey  {Ibid.  p.  46)  relates  the  following-  in  regard 
to  this  session  of  the  Commission  :  "  Duchesne  tells  how  he 
used  with  great  effect  in  the  Commission  an  argument  which  I 
supplied  a  few  days  ago.  Pole,  on  the  receipt  of  the  Brief  Regi- 
mini,  must  have  verified  the  consecration  of  all  bishops 
promoted  during  the  Schism,  to  make  sure  they  had  been 
consecrated  in  forma  ecclesiae,  in  order  that  the  ordinations 
they  had  performed  might  stand  good.  In  doing  this  he  must 
have  either  verified  Barlow's  consecration,  or  found  that  he  was 


56         Leaves  from  my  Diary 

consecrators  was  also  treated,  and  on  Satur- 
day next  we  are  to  discuss  the  Rite  itself. 

Thursday \  April  23rd. — To-day  we  went 
in  the  morning  to  work  in  the  Vatican.  We 
examined  the  dossier  of  the  Holy  Office 
papers  on  Ordination  questions  from  1603  to 
1698.  These  documents  make  it  quite 
certain  that  the  usage  of  sub-conditione  ordi- 
nations and  that  of  absohite  re-ordinations  was 
fully  understood  half  a  century  before  the 
Gordon  case  of  1 704.  Also  that  the  various 
Oriental  forms  were  quite  as  well  known  as 
they  are  to-day.  Morinus  and  suchlike 
authors  are  freely  quoted  in  the  various  vota. 

Friday \  aApril  2\th. — The  London  Daily 
Chronicle,  which  came  to  hand  this  morning, 
reports  a  speech  of  Lord  Halifax  to  the 
Church  Union.  This  is  interesting.  He 
warns  the  Pope  on  no  account  to  condemn 
Anglican  Orders,  and  he  names  Duchesne, 
Gasparri,  Scannell,  and  De  Augustinis  as 
being  in  favour  of  the  Validity  of  the  Orders. 
How  can  he  have  got  to  know  this  ?     We 

not  consecrated  ;  and  in  the  latter  case  it  would  certainly  have 
been  heard  of.  Moyes  replied  that  there  was  no  proof  that 
Pole  did  so.  '  Then,'  said  Duchesne,  '  he  was  a  very  un- 
faithful representative  of  the  Pope.' "  This  incident,  I  can 
safely  say,  never  took  place  in  any  session  of  the  Commission. 
If  it  had,  the  obvious  reply  would  have  been  to  point  out  that 
Barlow  was  safely  abroad  before  Pole  arrived,  and  so  could 
not  have  been  examined  in  his  own  case. 


Leaves  from  my  Diary         57 

who  are  with  them  could  not  speak  so  cer- 
tainly as  to  their  position,  though  we  have 
been  present  at  all  the  discussions. 

We  have  heard  that  two  Anglican  clergy- 
men, Mr.  Lacey  and  Father  Puller,  a  Cowley 
Father,  had  been  in  Rome  from  the  begin- 
ning with  a  view  to  render  any  assistance 
necessary  to  the  Commission.  To-day  "we 
understand  from  a  friend  of  theirs  and  our 
own  that  they  have  been  kept  au  courant 
with  everything  that  has  been  said  and  done 
at  the  confidential  meetings  of  the  Commis- 
sion, as  they  expressed  to  him  surprise  at 
some  of  the  theological  statements  made. 
Also  Mr.  Lacey  had  referred  to  what  he 
considered  an  astoundingly  false  statement 
in  our  Expositio,  which  was  printed  for  the 
use  of  the  Commission,  showing  that  it  had 
been  shown  to  him.  They  did  not  disguise 
the  fact  that  they  had  seen  all  the  private 
documents  and  discussed  the  whole  matter 
with  members  of  the  Commission.  So  far  as 
we  are  concerned,  we  think  it  a  good  thing 
that  they  should  be  able  to  educate  some 
members  of  the  Commission  to  their  views.* 
It  would  perhaps  be   useful  if  we  had  per- 

*  Mr.  Lacey  (Ibid.,  p.  35)  says,  April  15th:  "Gasparri  has 
seen  Cardinal  Rampolla,  spoken  about  us,  and  obtained  per- 
mission to  show  us  anything-  and  consult  us." 


58         Leaves  from  my  Diary 

mission  to  communicate  what  is  going  on  to 
Cardinal  Vaughan,  but  our  mouths  are  shut. 

Saturday \  zApril  25th. — To-day  is  our 
Eighth  Session.  We  began  at  10  and  sat  till 
12.15. 

For  most  of  the  first  hour  the  discussion 
on  the  Barlow  case  was  renewed. #  After 
that,  the  whole  of  the  session  was  devoted  to 
question  of  the  Form  in  se,  and  the  argu- 
ments were  not  finished  when  we  had  to  rise. 
Father  David  has  to  take  his  turn  at  the 
next  session,  f 

*  Mr.  Lacey  (Introduction,  p.  21)  says :  "  When  I  read  my 
Diary  with  the  deliberate  judgment  of  a  later  day,  two  things 
strike  me  as  remarkable.  The  first  is  the  disproportionate 
attention  paid  by  the  Commission  to  unimportant  points.  It 
seems  to  be  all  about  Barlow."  It  certainly  would  appear  to 
be  so  in  Mr.  Lacey's  pages,  but  it  was  not  so  in  the  Commis- 
sion. All  the  time  spent  over  this  question  by  the  Commission 
was  two  hours  in  the  session  of  April  21st,  and  less  than  one 
hour  in  the  session  of  April  25th.  From  the  first,  I  think  I 
may  say,  we  had  looked  on  even  this  brief  discussion  as 
needless,  and  at  the  moment  as  possessing  a  mere  academic 
interest. 

f  Mr.  Lacey  {Ibid.,  p,  50)  says  of  this  meeting  of  the 
Commission  (Saturday,  April  25th) :  "  In  the  sitting  of  the 
Commission  on  Saturday,  N.  challenged  A.'s  statement  about 
the  Barlow  documents.  B.  intervened,  declaring  that  he  had 
seen  the  documents.  'You  say  so?'  said  N.  'Yes.'  'I 
believe  you,'  said  N.,  with  a  little  emphasis.'"  In  a  note, 
Mr.  Lacey  writes  :  "This  petulance  was  quite  unjustified,  as 
the  sequel  shows.  The  documents  were  found,  as  noted 
below,  and  there  was  no  cause  for  any  reticence  about  them. 
I  should  like  to  expunge  the  story,  as  well  as  the  names,  but  it 
would  not  be  fair  to  suppress  evidence  of  our  own  suspicious 
temper."  This  incident  is  grossly  exaggerated.  There  was  a 
slight  difference  of  opinion  on  a  matter  of  evidence,  and  some 
doubts  were  expressed  by  the  Abbe  Duchesne  as  to  the 
existence  of  certain  documents,  but  most  certainly  not  in  the 


Leaves  from  my  Diary         59 

On  the  way  home  we  asked  ourselves, 
Was  it  possible  that  what  we  had  so  far  heard 
was  all  that  had  to  be  said  ?  Have  these 
Frenchmen,  acting  on  behalf  of  the  Anglicans, 
nothing  more  to  say  than  has  been  so  far 
brought  up  and  discussed  at  our  eight  meet- 
ings ?  Up  to  this  point  we  have  expected 
that  something  new  would  probably  be  sprung 
upon  us  that  would  throw  some  light  upon 
the  reasons  which  made  them  press  forward 
this  question  and  drag  us  most  unwillingly 
into  a  controversy  which  can  do  no  good  and 
may  possibly  do  much  harm.  The  tactics  of 
the  French  promoters  are  obvious.  They 
are  determined  to  work  for  a  mere  change  in 
the  practice  of  the  Church,  and  secure  that 
the  Orders  shall  be  regarded  as  doubtful, 
and  re-ordination  shall  henceforth  be  sub 
conditione. 

Mr.  Lacey  told  our  mutual  friend  that  they 
(himself  and  Father  Puller)  had  come  out 
believing  that  the  most  they  could  expect 
from  the  Roman  authorities  was  that  they 
would  be  spared  any  decision  contra,  and 
that  the  present  practice  would  go  on ;  but 

rude  and  impertinent  way  represented  by  Mr.  Lacey.  It  is 
inconceivable  that  the  Abbe  Duchesne  could  have  told  him  the 
story  without  adding-  that,  as  a  gentleman,  he  immediately 
apologised  for  even  seeming  to  doubt  what  had  been  said. 


60         Leaves  from  my  Diary 

that  now  they  had  full  confidence  that  the 
practice  would  be  changed,  and  the  Orders 
would  thus  be  acknowledged  as  merely 
doubtful. 

A  letter  received  from  Cardinal  Vaughan 
asks  whether  we  can  give  him  any  informa- 
tion about  the  Commission.  He  hears  a 
good  deal  of  gossip  from  Anglican  sources ; 
but  he  and  the  English  Bishops  are  quite  in 
the  dark  about  what  is  going  on. 

Sunday^  April  26th,  —  We  have  heard 
again  to-day  how  all  the  proceedings  of  our 
Commission  are  being  discussed  between  the 
French  party  and  the  Anglican  representa- 
tives in  Rome.  Mr.  Lacey  told  our  friend 
yesterday  that  although  the  proceedings  of 
the  Commission  were  private,  their  friends 
had  asked  and  obtained  permission  to  show 
them  all  documents  and  to  talk  over  the 
discussions  with  them.  I  hope  this  is  so, 
but  like  the  Scotchman,  "  I've  me  doots," 
and  should  like  to  find  out,  if  only  to  get  the 
same  permission  to  let  our  friends  know 
something. 

In  the  afternoon  we  heard  that  all  prepara- 
tions had  already  been  made  for  the  matter 
to  be  taken  up  by  the  Holy  Office  at  the 
point  we  leave  it.     An  official  of  the  Holy 


Leaves  from  my  Diary         61 

Office  has  already  been  named  by  the  Pope 
to  study  all  the  papers  and  documents,  in- 
cluding the  minutes  of  our  discussions,  and 
to  draw  up  a  precis  of  the  case.  His  name 
has  not  transpired  ;  but  we  hear  that  he  is 
already  at  work  on  the  documents  that  have 
been  so  far  placed  in  his  hands. 

Monday,  April  zjth —  I  have  asked  at 
the  Vatican,  and  have  been  informed  on  the 
highest  authority  that  no  permission  has  been 
asked  and  no  leave  granted  to  break  the 
Sec  re  turn  Pontificium. 

Wednesday,  April  29th.  —  This  morning 
we  held  our  ninth  session.  The  discussion 
as  to  the  Form  was  continued,  Father  David 
leading  off  as  arranged. 

Saturday,  May  2nd. —  Our  tenth  session. 
The  morning  was  spent  on  the  discussion  of 
the  Anglican  Ordinal,  considered  formaliter. 
We  understand  that  at  the  end  of  our  meet- 
ings the  Pope  is  going  to  require  the  return 
of  all  papers  and  documents  which  have 
been  communicated  to  us,  and  will  issue 
another  precept  of  absolute  secrecy  about 
any  information,  etc.,  obtained  in  the  sessions 
of  the  Commission. 

In  the  Guardian  newspaper,  which  came 
to  hand  to-day,  there  is  a  paragraph  saying 

4 


62         Leaves  from  my  Diary 

that  information  about  the  opinions  of  mem- 
bers of  the  Commission  had  become  public 
property,  and  expressing  a  pleased  surprise 
that  Padre  de  Augustinis  held  that  Anglican 
Orders  were  valid,  both  on  historical  and 
theological  grounds. 

Tuesday,  May  $th. — To-day  we  have  had 
our  eleventh  session.  In  the  last  (10th)  ses- 
sion Cardinal  Mazzella  had  proposed  certain 
quaesita  to  be  answered  in  writing.  After  the 
responsa  to  these  had  been  read,  the  Cardinal 
made  an  address,  summing  up  the  discus- 
sions we  had  been  engaged  upon.  He  con- 
cluded by  saying  that  the  opinions  we  had 
been  asked  for  by  the  Holy  Father  had  been 
sufficiently  made  known  and  debated,  and 
that  he  would  only  request  us  to  meet  once 
more  on  Thursday,  to  pass  the  acta. 

Thursday,  May  jth. — This  morning  we 
had  our  twelfth  and  last  session.  The  acta 
were  read,  and  so  ended  the  meetings  of  the 
Anglican  Orders  Commission.  Before  the 
close  the  Secretary  read  a  mandate  sub 
praecepto  obedientiae  for  all  to  keep  silence  on 
whatever  had  been  learnt  in  the  course  of  our 
private  sessions. # 

*  Mr.  Lacey,  in  recording-  the  admonition  says:  "All 
the  members  have  their  mouths  shut,  and  are  forbidden  ever 
again  to  write  or  publish  anything  on  the  subject  of  Anglican 


Leaves  from  my  Diary         63 

In  the  afternoon  we  saw  Father  Brandi, 
who  had  already  heard  that  the  Commission 
was  dissolved.  He  said  that  Duchesne  had 
told  someone  that  he  was  entirely  satisfied 
with  the  meetings  and  that  "if  the  Arch- 
bishop of  Canterbury  only  knew  how  he  had 
done  battle  for  him,  he  ought  to  give  him  a 
gold  medal." 

Sunday,  £May  \oth. — We  hear  to-day  that 
the  Abbe  Duchesne  has  been  urging  that 
advantage  be  taken  of  the  presence  of  Mr. 
Lacey  and  Father  Puller  in  Rome  to  initiate 
some  conferences  in  which  they  would  be 
represented. 

Tuesday,  May  1 2th. — To-day  I  paid  visits 
to  two  Cardinals.  In  the  morning  Cardinal 
Aloisi-Masella  expressed  himselfverystrongly 
on  the  way  the  French  friends  of  the  Angli- 
cans had  been  allowed  to  force  the  question 
of  Anglican  Orders  to  an  examination.  They 
had  represented  to  the  Pope  that  the  case 
had  never  before  been  properly  looked  into, 
and  that  new  facts  had  been  discovered,  on 
which  the  Orders  could  be  proved  to  be  at 
worst  doubtful.     From  the  first,  he  said,  he 

Orders.  This  must  be  annoying  for  Moyes."  Needless  to  say 
that  this  version  of  the  admonition  is  an  entire  misapprehen- 
sion. The  prohibition  extended  only  to  the  proceedings  of 
the  Commission,  but  in  no  way  forbade  the  writing  or  pub- 
lishing of  anything  on  the  subject  of  Anglican  Orders. 


64         Leaves  from  my  Diary 

had  seen  that  the  French  were  working  to 
secure  a  change  in  the  practice  of  re-ordina- 
tion. 

In  the  evening  Cardinal  Ledochowski  ex- 
pressed much  the  same  views.  He  considered 
that  great  harm  had  already  been  done  by 
the  light  way  in  which  the  existing  practice 
of  the  Church  in  so  grave  a  matter  had  been 
impugned,  and  entirely  without  adequate 
reason.  He  deplored  the  fact  that  the  ques- 
tion had  ever  been  raised.  He  told  us  that  a 
Catholic  layman  had  written  a  memorandum 
on  the  business,  and  had  sent  it  to  him.  He 
considered  it  as  uri  impertinenza  for  a  layman 
to  try  and  dictate  the  course  of  events  in  such 
a  matter. 

Wednesday^  May  2.0th. — From  the  Church 
Times,  to  hand  to-day,  it  appears  that  Father 
Puller  has  laid  his  views  about  Baptism  and 
Confirmation  before  the  Abbe  Duchesne, 
who  had,  at  least  according  to  Fr.  P., 
declared  that  M  they  were  certainly  according 
to  Scripture  and  the  early  Fathers,  and,  he 
believed,  according  to  the  teaching  of  the 
Roman  schools  of  to-day."  The  views  of 
Fr.  Puller  are  well  known,  as  they  appeared 
ten  years  ago  in  a  pamphlet.  Roughly 
speaking,  he  holds  that  the  Holy  Ghost  is 


Leaves  from  my  Diary         65 

not  received  in  Baptism,  but  only  in  Con- 
firmation. 

Friday,  May,  22nd.  —  After  the  "  Ave 
Maria"  Canon  Moyes  and  Father  David  went 
to  call  on  Cardinal  Parocchi  at  the  Vicariate. 
They  were  kept  a  long  time  waiting  and  at 
the  same  time  Mr.  Lacey  and  Father  Puller 
were  awaiting  their  turn  for  an  audience  It 
is  reported  that  Mr.  L.  has  been  expressing 
himself  entirely  satisfied.  At  his  pension  he 
said  that  he  had  been  informed  on  the  highest 
authority  than  an  adverse  decision  is  now 
quite  out  of  the  question.  From  Monte  Cas- 
sino,  where  he  and  Father  Puller  have  been 
staying,  it  is  reported  that  they  expressed 
themselves  "  quite  hopeful  of  the  happy 
issue  "  in  their  sense. * 

Wednesday,  May  2jth. — Father  David 
left  for  home  this  morning.  A  lay  friend 
who  had  been  at  Monte  Cassino  during  the 
visit  of  Messrs.  Lacey  and  Puller  gave  us 
to-day  some  impressions.  He  had  seen  a 
good  deal  of  them,  and  they  openly  talked  of 
their  mission  to  Rome.  Father  Puller  said 
he  had  been  sent  by  the  Archbishop  of  York, 
who  had  blessed  him  and  his  mission,  and 

*  This  appears   frequently   in   the  pages  of  Mr.    Lacey's 
Diary. 


66         Leaves  from  my  Diary 

that  the  Bishop  of  Salisbury  had  done  the 
same  for  Mr.  Lacey.  One  of  the  Fathers 
asked  them  if  they  were  quite  satisfied  that 
their  case  had  been  fully  laid  before  the 
Commission  ;  they  replied  that  they  were 
completely  satisfied,  and  even  more  than 
satisfied,  with  the  way  they  had  been  repre- 
sented. They  made  no  secret  at  all  of  the 
fact  that  all  the  private  documents  had  been 
shown  them  and  of  the  way  the  proceedings 
of  our  meetings  had  been  told  them.  Our 
friend  evidently  thought  this  had  been  done 
by  authority,  and  was  astonished  to  hear  that 
this  was  not  so,  and  that  we  had  been  unable 
to  let  even  Cardinal  Vaughan  and  the 
English  Catholic  Bishops  have  any  infor- 
mation about  the  Commission. 

Another  friend  then  at  Monte  Cassino 
told  these  two  Anglican  clergyman  that  he 
could  not  understand  what  possible  good 
any  recognition  of  their  Orders  by  the  Pope 
would  do  them.  Mr.  Lacey  replied  that  it 
was  at  present  very  necessary,  and  he 
instanced  what  had  happened  at  a  "re-union  " 
meeting  in  the  north  of  England  some  time 
last  year.  He  said  that  no  sooner  had  he 
risen  to  speak  than  some  one  at  the  back  of 
the    hall  shouted  out :    "  Does  the  Pope  of 


Leaves  from  my  Diary         67 

Rome  recognise  you  as  a  priest  ?"  He  said 
that  he  was  unable  to  answer  that  question  ; 
and  the  meeting  was  so  determined  that  this 
was  a  vital  question,  that  it  practically- 
refused  to  allow  the  proceedings  to  go  on. 

They  also  told  one  of  the  Fathers  at 
Monte  Cassino  that  they  had  been  asked  by 
the  highest  authority  to  remain  on  in  Rome 
for  a  few  weeks  longer  in  order  that  they 
might  be  at  hand  if  wanted. *  They  said 
nothing  could  exceed  the  kindness  shown  to 
them  in  Rome  by  all,  and  they  were  quite 
satisfied  that  the  Pope  would  go  as  far  as 
possible  to  meet  their  wishes. 

Monday ',  June  1st. — We  received  from 
Cardinal  Mazzella  two  publications  of  Mr. 
Lacey,  which  he  was  circulating  among  the 
Roman  Cardinals.  One  is  called  Supple- 
ment m  De  Hierarchia  Anglicana,  and  the 
other  is  a  brochure  named  De  Re  Anglicana.^ 
This  last  gives,  in  my  opinion,  a  very  twisted 
account  of  the  Reformation  history  and  even 

•  Mr.  Lacey  {A  Roman  Diary,  p.  62),  writes  on  May  8th, 
M  Duchesne  saw  Cardinal  Rampolla,  who  expressed  a  wish 
that  we  should  stay  in  Rome  for  the  present,  and  hold  ourselves 
in  readiness  to  give  information  to  the  Commission  of  Cardinals 
which  is  now  appointed." 

t  Of  this  Mr.  Lacey  says  (Ibid.,  p.  66),  "Portal  at  once 
(May  15th),  charged  me  with  a  new  pamphlet— suggested  by 
the  ignorance  of  Cardinal  Vannutelli — a  brief  outline  of  the 
present  state  of  the  Church  of  England,  with  a  clear  explana- 
tion of  parties.     This  is  to  be  finished  before  Monday." 


68  Leaves  from  my  Diary- 
more  of  the  Status  actualis.  At  the  end  is 
an  appendix  giving  a  tabular  statement  of 
the  English  Church,  communitates  clericorum 
et  co?nmunitates  Religiosarum  votis  adstric- 
tarum,  etc.  It  is  very  ingenious  and  is 
bound  to  give  a  wholly  false  impression  to 
those  who  do  not  know  the  actual  state  of 
England  and  the  profoundly  Protestant 
feeling  of  the  majority  of  the  members  of  the 
Established  Church.  We  are  instructed  to 
write  our  remarks  upon  this  pamphlet,  De  Re 
Anglicana,  at  once. 

In  the  afternoon  a  friend  told  us  that  Mr. 
Lacey  had  informed  him  that  he  had  distri- 
buted these  works  among  the  Cardinals. 
All  of  them,  he  said,  had  received  them 
most  cordially,  and  that  there  was  only  one, 
Cardinal  Parocchi,  who,  though  most  cour- 
teous and  kind,  was  decidedly  hostile  lo 
them.  They  said  that  their  instructions 
were  to  wait  and  see  the  whole  matter  out, 
and  so  they  were  going  to  stop  on  in  Rome 
for  the  final  decision. 

Wednesday,  June  yd.  —  The  English 
papers  to-hand  to-day  contain  a  letter  from 
Mr.  Gladstone  on  the  Anglican  Orders  ques- 
tion. It  has  caused  a  good  deal  of  talk,  and 
the  general  verdict,  I  think,  is  that,  as  usual, 


Leaves  from  my  Diary         69 

Mr.  Gladstone  has  contrived  to  say  little  or 
nothing  in  a  very  long  letter.  The  object 
of  the  letter,  however,  is  obvious,  and  Mr. 
Gladstone  must  have  been  pressed  to  write 
it  by  those  who  do  not  desire  any  decision,  if 
it  be  unfavourable  to  their  views,  for  it  is 
meant  clearly  to  deprecate  any  decision 
whatever,  unless  it  be  in  favour  of  the 
Validity.*  The  Times  article  (Monday, 
June  1  st)  is  good. 

It  is  announced  in  certain  of  the  Paris 
papers,  and  also  in  the  Vera  Roma,  that 
Duchesne  has  been  appointed  a  Consultor  of 
the  Holy  Office.  This  is  not  very  likely  to 
be  true. 

Friday^  "June  $th. — The  Holy  Father  to- 
day said  that  he  desired  that  the  case  should 
proceed  without  unnecessary  delay.  He  had 
heard  that  some  people  considered    that  it 

*  Some  light  on  the  origin  of  Mr.  Gladstone's  letter  appears 
in  Mr.  Lacey's  Diary,  pp.  52-3:  "  If.  Portal  came  with  an 
important  letter  from  Lord  Halifax  about  Mr.  Gladstone. 
Mr.  Gladstone  is  quite  willing  under  certain  conditions — e.g., 
if  asked  to  do  so — to  write  a  letter  either  to  the  Pope  or  to 
anyone  else,  for  publication  at  an  opportune  moment.  A  draft 
of  a  letter  to  the  Pope,  on  which  Lord  Halifax  and  Mr.  Glad- 
stone were  agreed  (N.B.  This,  my  impression  at  the  time,  was 
incorrect),  was  enclosed.  We  talked  this  over.  M.  Portal 
thought  he  must  see  Cardinal  Rampolla."  He  did  so,  and, 
though  the  Cardinal  was  "keenly  interested,"  he  told  him  that 
Mr.  Gladstone  must  not  write  a  letter  to  the  Pope  intended  for 
publication,  but  it  would  have  a  good  effect  if  he  would  write 
such  a  letter  to  someone  else— Lord  Halifax,  for  example. 


70        Leaves  from  my  Diary 

was  the  function  of  our  Commission,  now  at 
an  end,  to  judge  the  case,  and  he  desired 
that  it  should  be  known  that  all  we  had  to 
do  was  to  prepare  the  way  for  the  judicial 
examination  which  is  to  come  now.  After 
this,  the  whole  matter  will  be  buried  in  the 
minds  of  the  Cardinals  of  the  Holy  Office, 
and  nothing  more  can  be  heard  of  it  till  the 
conclusion.  The  Revue  Anglo -Romaine  an- 
nounced last  week  that  it  remained  to  be 
seen  what  action  would  be  taken  on  this 
matter,  and  that  the  Pope  had  not  yet 
decided  whether  to  proceed  by  a  process  of 
the  Holy  Office  or  to  appoint  a  Special 
Commission  of  Cardinals.  According  to  our 
information,  this  has  been  decided  a  long  time 
ago  in  favour  of  a  process  of  the  Holy  Office. 

Tuesday,  June  qt/i. — We  understand  that, 
whatever  be  the  decision,  it  will  be  given  in 
what  is  known  in  the  Holy  Office  as  the 
Feria  Va  session.  At  this  the  Pope  presides 
in  person  at  a  meeting  of  all  the  Cardinals  of 
the  Holy  Office.  The  procedure  is  so  rare 
that  it  has  not  been  used  since  the  days  of 
Pope  Benedict  XIV,  and  even  the  method 
of  holding  it  is  doubtful.  It  is  considered  to 
be  the  most  important  judicial  court  in  the 
Church,  and  the  most  solemn  act  of  the  Pope. 


Leaves  from  my  Diary         71 

The  decision  in  the  case  of  Bishop  Gordon  in 
1 704  was  also  the  result  of  a  Feria  Va  session 
of  the  Holy  Office. 

Wednesday^  "June  1  oth.  —  The  Church 
Times  article  on  Gladstone's  letter  has  given 
rise  to  much  talk  here.  The  Anglican  party- 
are  asking  people  to  believe  that  England 
has  never  formally  been  shut  off  from  the 
Holy  See,  but  misunderstandings  had  come 
up  and  they  had  drifted  apart. 

Sunday \  June  14///. — Gossip  still  is  the 
order  of  the  day.  An  article  in  the  Roman 
Post,  understood  to  be  by  Croke,  corre- 
spondent of  the  Tablet,  evidently  supports 
the  sub  condition*  result.  In  conversation 
with  one  of  the  priests  of  San  Silvestro  this 
morning,  he  said  that  he  was  informed  that 
the  final  decision  had  been  left  to  the  Car- 
dinal Secretary  of  State,  Cardinal  Rampolla, 
and  that  consequently  there  would  be  no 
consideration  given  to  it  from  any  but  a 
diplomatic  point  of  view.  He  said  that  it 
was  well  known  in  Roman  ecclesiastical 
circles  that  we  (Moyes,  David  and  I)  had  been 
on  the  wrong  tack  altogether,  and  had  failed 
to  convince  people  of  the  justice  of  the 
present  practice. 

Monday^    'June     15///. — Croke   has   been 


72         Leaves  from  my  Diary 

here  again  to-day,  talking  in  the  same  sense 
as  above.  The  decision  is  certain  to  be  at 
the  very  least  a  sub  conditione  one,  if  not  for 
validity  of  Orders.  "  The  Pope,"  he  said, 
"would  as  soon  think  of  rescinding  the 
Vatican  decree  of  Papal  Infallibility  as  of 
condemning  the  Anglican  Orders  absolutely." 

Tuesday,  June  \6th. — To-day  we  hear 
that  the  Abbe  Portal,  Father  Puller  and  Mr. 
Lacey  have  left  Rome.  The  Revue  Anglo- 
Romaine,  in  announcing  their  departure,  says 
that  "  Portal,  with  two  English  priests  en- 
gaged upon  the  Commission,  had  the  plea- 
sure of  being  present  at  the  Pope's  Mass." 

Thursday,  June  i  %th. — Canon  Moyes  and 
I  had  a  farewell  audience  with  the  Pope,  who 
thanked  us  for  having  come  out  to  assist  in 
the  Commission,  and  gave  us  His  blessing. 

Saturday,  June,  20th. — We  had  a  round 
of  visits  to-day  to  various  Cardinals,  etc.,  to 
whom  we  presented  copies  of  the  Risposta 
we  had  been  asked  to  make  to  the  pamphlet 
De  Re  Anglicana  of  Mr.  Lacey. 

Monday,  June  22nd. — Canon  Moyes  and 
I  leave  Rome  to-morrow  morning,  and  thus 
ends  our  connection  with  the  question  of 
Anglican  Orders. 


POSTSCRIPT. 

Memorandum. 

July  17///,  1896. — I  heard  to-day  that 
Cardinal  Vaughan  had  received  a  letter  from 
Cardinal  Perraud  to  the  effect  that  the  Pope 
had  expressed  himself  very  strongly  on  the 
attitude  taken  up  by  the  Abbe  Portal  in  the 
Revue  Anglo- Romaine,  the  explaining  away 
the  Encyclical  on  the  Church,  etc.  The 
Holy  Father  had  directed  Cardinal  Perraud 
to  write  to  the  Archbishop  of  Paris  to  the 
effect  that  the  whole  attitude  of  the  Revue 
must  at  once  cease,  or  it  would  have  to  be 
put  an  end  to. 

The  Abbe  Portal  has  been  this  week  at  a 
meeting  of  the  English  Church  Union  at 
Sion  College  (I  think).  It  was  not  a  public 
meeting,  but  circulars  were  sent  inviting 
various  people.  One  lady  who  was  present 
described  Portal's  address  to  me.  He  began 
by  saying  that  he  would  open  his  heart  to 
those  who  thought  with  him.  He  said  there 
was  nothing  in  the  Encyclical  on  M  the 
Church "  which  need  suggest  any  fear  for 
44  re-union  "  which  did   not  necessarily  mean 


74  Postscript 

"  submission."  The  great  obstacle  to  re-union 
was  the  bitterness  and  unreasonableness  of 
Roman  Catholics  in  England.  He  told  them 
that  although  they  were  not  under  one  and 
the  same  head  they  might  yet  have  full 
confidence  that  they  possessed  the  entire 
sacramental  system  and  were  true  Catholics. 
The  great  obstacle  to  re-union  was  Cardinal 
Vaughan. 

Mr.  Lacey  also  spoke.  He  saw  nothing 
in  the  Encyclical  that  might  lead  them  to 
anticipate  any  adverse  decision  about  their 
Orders.  In  fact,  he  was  quite  confident  that 
the  ultimate  decision  would  be  in  favour  of 
the  Orders,  and  even  were  it  not  so,  there 
would  be  no  decision  which  any  successor  of 
Leo  XIII  might  not  reverse. 

Both  Lord  Halifax  and  Mr.  Lacey  ex- 
plained away  the  Encyclical  in  the  sense  of 
the  article  in  the  Church  Times  last  week, 
viz.,  that  the  Unity  of  the  Church  did  not 
mean  perfect  Union.  Just  as  a  family  is  one 
as  a  family,  though  its  members  might  be 
very  disunited. 

To-day  a  letter  from  a  priest  at  Brighton 
tells  me  that  he  is  convinced  of  the  perfect 
fairness  and  honesty  of  Cardinal  Vaughan, 
since  he  has  had  a  letter  from   Fr.  Scannell 


Postscript  75 

to  the  effect  that  not  only  had  the  Cardinal 
asked  him  to  go  out  and  represent  his  views, 
but  had  given  him  .£50  to  pay  his  expenses. 

zAugust  6th — The  following  is  an  extract 
from  a  letter  written  from  Llandrindod  by 
Cardinal  Vaughan  :  "  M.  Portal  two  years 
ago  said  in  the  Times  that  I  had  no  theo- 
logical knowledge,  and  that  my  view  of  the 
invalidity  of  Anglican  Orders  would  not  be 
sustained  in  Rome.  He  has  been  going  on 
the  same  way  since.  The  question  has  been 
taken  out  of  my  hands  and  those  of  the 
Hierarchy,  and  it  is  at  present  in  those  of 
the  Pope.  We  are  at  present  dogs  that  may 
not  bark,  and  are  in  absolute  ignorance  of 
what  is  taking  place." 

Thursday^  September  10th.  —  To-day  I 
have  heard  the  facts  about  the  Feria  V* 
session  of  the  Holy  Office  in  which  the 
question  of  the  Anglican  Orders  was  con- 
sidered. The  meeting  was  held  on  July  16th 
and  the  Cardinals  were  all  present,  with  the 
exception  of  Cardinal  Rampolla.  Even 
Cardinal  Mertel,  who  had  to  be  carried  to 
the  assembly,  was  there.  The  Pope  presided, 
and  after  discussion  all  the  Cardinals  were 
unanimous  in  their  verdict.  At  the  end  the 
Holy  Father  reserved  the  decision  to  himself. 


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